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The thing (80v & 82r)

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• The thing (80v & 82r)

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Searcher > 03-12-2016, 01:09 AM

  In fact, I think, these are the same things that is in the hand of the nymph on the f76v.
  
  
  
  It seems that the thing on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. just has petals (flower bud?) To be honest, most of all it reminds me a tulip and its seed capsule. 
  
  
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  !!!
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  The earliest European pictures of tulip are from the late 16th century, earlier existed images are mostly Turkish, of course, but, possibly, older European images exist, I don't know.
  Pay attention on this little fragment from the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (above the mentioned image), no doubt, it can be any plant, but also it quite can be exactly a flower similar to tulip.
  
  

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  MarcoP > 04-12-2016, 08:46 AM

  (03-12-2016, 01:09 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In fact, I think, these are the same things that is in the hand of the nymph on the f76v.
  
  

  
  Thank you, Searcher! I think that taking some context into account is an excellent idea. It seems likely to me that the illustration in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is related to the other two.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Koen G > 04-12-2016, 08:19 PM

  While researching spindles, I found out that there's some martial arts subgenre of women beating men with spindles+distaffs. Thought the Voynich ninjas would appreciate
  
  
  
  
  
  

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Koen G > 04-12-2016, 09:04 PM

  There is apparently an image in the Wiener Genesis of someone holding up a spindle to the stars.
  
  

  Quote:Upper left Potiphar's wife reclines in colonnaded bedroom trying to lure Joseph who is turning to leave. Next Joseph looks back on the scene of the temptation he has resisted. An astrologer wearing a starry cape holds up a spindle and between him and Joseph, Potiphar's wife tends a baby. One woman tends a baby and two others spin on the bottom.

  
  
  
  
  Titel: Cod. theol. gr. 31 (Faks.), fol. 16r: Wiener Genesis
  Beschreibung: Ganze Seite: Text und Miniatur (Josephs Flucht vor der Frau des Potifar)
  
  Is that custom referred to in the bible, perhaps?

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Linda > 07-12-2016, 12:27 AM

  (03-12-2016, 01:09 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In fact, I think, these are the same things that is in the hand of the nymph on the f76v.
  
  

  
  I think the 2nd and 2nd last nymphs at the top of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. could also be holding versions of the "thing" albeit without the dots. Nymphs 9 and 2 in the snippet below:
  
  
  
  I know 2 looks like she's holding a ring but look at it from another perspective and it could be a semi-filled spindle, while 9's is empty.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Davidsch > 07-12-2016, 11:46 AM

  (04-12-2016, 09:04 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is apparently an image in the Wiener Genesis of someone holding up a spindle to the stars.
  
  

  Quote:Upper left Potiphar's wife reclines in colonnaded bedroom trying to lure Joseph who is turning to leave. Next Joseph looks back on the scene of the temptation he has resisted. An astrologer wearing a starry cape holds up a spindle and between him and Joseph, Potiphar's wife tends a baby. One woman tends a baby and two others spin on the bottom.

  
  
  
  
  Titel: Cod. theol. gr. 31 (Faks.), fol. 16r: Wiener Genesis
  Beschreibung: Ganze Seite: Text und Miniatur (Josephs Flucht vor der Frau des Potifar)
  
  Is that custom referred to in the bible, perhaps?

  
  
  Based on the bible story
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  Explanation of the scene can be found here:
  
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  Holding a spindle to the stars seems to be symbolic for an astrologer doing something.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  davidjackson > 07-12-2016, 12:27 PM

  The spindle was a metaphor for astrology - it showed how the fates wove a thread for each of us into the fabric of life, and how everyone was interconnected in one great tapestry.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Koen G > 07-12-2016, 02:48 PM

  Thank yous, Davids
  
  It's an interesting detail that the apparent divination scene has not been canonized. But in general there are surely more tales that didn't make the Bible's final cut than those that did, so not exceptional.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  R. Sale > 07-12-2016, 05:48 PM

  What is that *thing*? Is it a spindle or part of a flower? I can't seem to hold an opinion long enough to post a relevant comment. I was surprised by the close similarity of the spindles shown in recent postings. However, the thought that came to me was that these references, even the carved relief, also show the *thread* apart from the spindle (where the level of detail permits). The VMs examples do not show this thread.
  
  On the other hand, we all know of the 'stars on strings' in the VMs zodiac pages. The artist has made the effort in each case to draw a connecting line from nymph to star. Since real stars don't have strings, and these are probably not mylar balloons, the lines must represent something more difficult to define and possibly intangible. And yet for the VMs 'spindles'(?), where thread is easily represented, tangible and even expected, there is nothing. That seems incongruous to to me.

• RE: The thing (80v & 82r)

  Linda > 07-12-2016, 07:56 PM

  Maybe the dots indicate that the "things" are not to be thought of as literal spindles, but cosmic ones. Perhaps they represent the orbits of the planets. This may go back to a meaning of time or direction as well, or perhaps indicates more philosophical aspects.
  
  Plato's Spindle of Necessity. The Goddess Necessity was the mother of the 3 fates. Also the idea of souls, afterlife, choosing good lives, justice, karma, music is in there too...
  
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