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Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

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• Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  ThomasCoon > 12-12-2016, 01:23 AM

  Hey Stellar: two questions arise in my head:
  
  1) What would we do on pages without images (and there are many)?
  
  2) Have you seen if your cipher procedure can produce other languages / other English words also? (However, my main concern is point #1)
  
  Thanks!
  -Thomas

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  bunny > 13-12-2016, 06:33 PM

  (03-12-2016, 06:17 AM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote pid='9522' dateline='1480741943']
  Sorry - I caught that just as you were replying. I apologize. But whether Italy is there or not, the sentence is still ungrammatical.

  
  [/quote]
  
  I don't think it is ungrammatical per sae, grammar is language dependant and hard to be critical of. I think the translation offers up razor sharp poetry in this case. Poetry can say a lot in a around about way taking the scenic route, be elusive, or razor sharp imagery as in proems like Haiku.  The less words and grammar there is the more to the point it has to be. 
  
  I have done a short appraisal of this piece of translation, but on a different computer so will put it on from there later.  To me it is Haiku like, with an open question remaining thrown open to the reader. A welsh translation would have been the cherry on the cake and I would like to see this teaxt in Welsh also.  Whether or not you like or agree with the method used, as measured by traditional academic methods and standards - Rubbish it is not though and I aim to demonstrate why.
  
  Bunny

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  ThomasCoon > 13-12-2016, 11:43 PM

  (13-12-2016, 06:33 PM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't think it is ungrammatical per se, grammar is language dependant and hard to be critical of. I think the translation offers up razor sharp poetry in this case. Poetry can say a lot in a around about way taking the scenic route, be elusive, or razor sharp imagery as in poems like Haiku.  The less words and grammar there is the more to the point it has to be. 
  
  I have done a short appraisal of this piece of translation, but on a different computer so will put it on from there later.  To me it is Haiku like, with an open question remaining thrown open to the reader. A welsh translation would have been the cherry on the cake and I would like to see this text in Welsh also.  Whether or not you like or agree with the method used, as measured by traditional academic methods and standards - Rubbish it is not though and I aim to demonstrate why.
  
  Bunny

  
  Hi Bunny - you are right, different languages do have different grammars, and poetry can leave out grammar. But I advise you to answer this question: Why can stellar's methods produce several outputs? why could his "Welsh numerology" produce not only Welsh, but also Chinese? Why can every "gematria" paragraph produce many valid English paragraphs, as I showed with the moon-landing? If his methods produce only 1 result, that is useful. But if a paragraph can say whatever I want it to, then that is not a solution - it can't prove that the VMS actually says a particular thing.

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  bunny > 14-12-2016, 12:26 AM

  (13-12-2016, 11:43 PM)ThomasCoon Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[quote pid='9744' dateline='1481650426']
  Hi Bunny - you are right, different languages do have different grammars, and poetry can leave out grammar. But I advise you to answer this question: Why can stellar's methods produce several outputs? why could his "Welsh numerology" not only produce Welsh, but also Chinese? Why can every "gematria" paragraph produce many valid English paragraphs, as I showed with the moon-landing? If his methods produce only 1 result, that is useful. But if a paragraph can say whatever I want it to, then that is not a solution - it doesn't prove what the really VMS says.

  
  [/quote]
  
  I do agree that it is not in the realm of a set method producing a set one and only output, though his method is far from the first to run along the same lines.  I will be publishing in the near-ish future a hypothesis that covers this aspect of various methods.  For the moment I would see the Welsh numerology as a "tool" of translation and again he is not the first to go along the lines of one VM letter falls into a group of possible English for example, letters, possibly with anagramming that overall fits together like a jigsaw into a sequence, or more than one sequence with one relevant choice.  And of course if something was written in a root language it should be readable in many, even Chinese, again something I will be going into.  It seems to say quite well from "many various sources using many various and not standardly acceptable" what it needs to say to the intended audience. 
  
  My interest in the Welsh is the strong link he has in wanting to look at Welsh which no one else has done as far as I know, he also is looking at English maybe thinking the Welsh is a dead end.  But English and Welsh combined is pointing to a date that the VM may have been moved, which is not information found in the usual historical records. But it's not for me to put words into his mouth and I have to wait and see if he finds anything or not on his own.  To summarise I'm looking at people's results regardless of method or degrees of variation, and looking at the similarities and factualness of them, and Stellar is a current example.  I know you say it doesn't prove what it says when looking at a 1:1 singular back workable solution, but can so many researchers over so much time all be so wrong if they point to the same overall pattern?
  
  Bunny
  
  Bunny

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  bunny > 14-12-2016, 01:15 AM

  Link to a brief appraisal of one of Stellar's short translations as shown below.
  
  

  “Banking line Italy hast fame, Dante to Florence a poet to the end. 

  Rome agreed writer due sum of money; the divine fire, wise poem.”

  
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Bunny

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  -JKP- > 14-12-2016, 06:24 AM

  (14-12-2016, 01:15 AM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Link to a brief appraisal of one of Stellar's short translations as shown below.
  
  

  “Banking line Italy hast fame, Dante to Florence a poet to the end. 

  Rome agreed writer due sum of money; the divine fire, wise poem.”

  
  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  Bunny

  
  
  
  That's modern English. They didn't speak or spell English like this in the 15th century.
  
  If you change even one letter, then the gematria number of the word changes and no longer matches the same word in Stellar's system.
  
  For example, I've seen the word "money" in 16th-century documents, but only rarely and I haven't seen it in any 15th-century documents. It's a French word (and spelled variously), not English and certainly not spelled "money". In those days, they usually spoke of silver or ducats or pence or specific quantities rather than using a general term like "money".
  
  Changing it to French spelling completely changes the gematria value, which means it wouldn't apply to the VMS word. Same with many of the other "decoded" words.

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  Witch Mountain > 14-12-2016, 09:14 AM

  Dear friends, it is also worth noting that "Italy hast fame" is ungrammatical in any time period - it is subject-verb agreement error:
  
  I have (1st person)
  Thou hast (2nd person)
  He/she/it has or hath (3rd person)
  
  "Italy" would be 3rd person (the country is an "it") but here it is linked with "hast", which is 2nd person.

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  Koen G > 14-12-2016, 10:47 AM

  Also:
  
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• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  stellar > 16-12-2016, 02:19 AM

  Another day dawns in the bussing villages of San Diego, I find myself drawing the drapes after an all-nighter; more hours pass by during the day on a Voynich quest to find meaning missing another sunset.  My life has been sort of like this for about 5 months now.  For some reason I feel like I hit a home run this time with the VMS glyphs and a gematria cipher for a translation of its inner realm.  To my astonishment I now think a Druid wrote the VMS.  LoL, JKP, Mr. Coon, Koen Marco P, Renez, Diane, Ellie, Davidjackson and bunny last but not least Anton.
  
  Within the new cipher I tried to stick as closely to the letters from the abbreviations link below, it is a great reference a builder for a cipher.  I believe the VMS, it's English with some Latin and french words as-well as Greek.  Just looking as the VMS with its rather immense spacing compared to other Latin texts it just screams English and occasional other languages towards Gematria.
  
  The Zodiac is mint including July for Cancer.  Tauris and star names found, Carrot, and N. Pole.  Yes and a concise poetic paragraph from a Druid I think.  How many times have I gone down these roads with the Mt. Everest of Ciphers as Nick Pelling would say.  There was, “The Code Unchopped I and II, a Voynich Latin translation, Voynich Welsh Numerology.  Well a 5th try and now its VMS Gematria.  And yes once I gather enough material I will publish a better Essay write up I promise, grinJ.
  
  Now I know what you’re thinking how you know these are the Druids words.  Well logical thinking I suppose.
  
  Thankyou JKP for that great write up on Gallows, Capitulars and Subject Matter.  I to now believe the gallows have something to do with proper nouns and subjectivity. 
  
  
  
  
  
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  Simply click on a word or phrase and it will show the code behind the word or phrase.    Then do a search for the terms using the find in your upper right google find bar for the phrase or search word in the Gematria list of words and phrases.  The code word corresponds from the letters to the voynich glyph’s in my cipher from the Voynich Manuscript Gematria chart in the Zodiac.  Sometimes a link will go to a counter if its not in the database.
  
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• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  bunny > 16-12-2016, 10:21 AM

  [quote pid='9831' dateline='1481851170']
  
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  [/quote]
  
  Stellar, is the druid connection you feel is there with reference to a specific place or the religion in general. 
  
  Bunny
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