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Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

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• Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  -JKP- > 20-12-2016, 08:59 AM

  (20-12-2016, 12:51 AM)stellar Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  
  Stellar, what if the gallows characters (and perhaps other characters like EVA-j) turn out to be ligatures (to represent more than one letter). Then the entire system has to be reworked with a new set of numbers and yet I'm willing to bet you'll come up with the same kinds of solutions, the same basic sorts of words, because YOU are choosing words that YOU think might impose some sense on the text.
  
  Can you see why the subjective part of your method is a problem? the part where you decide what you think it might be and cherry-pick words to create meaning?

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  stellar > 21-12-2016, 07:03 PM

  Hi everyone,
   
  I’m still very happy with my cipher; I have made some serious in-roads to this star map of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..  You will notice some stars are close by in there constellations while others are a little further away, however I feel I have made a copy of what the Author intended.  I believe this is the first representation of all the stars in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. using a cipher that is consistent.  Most of the stars are in the Northern Hemisphere while the constellation Argo Navis is in the Southern the two stars on the map are fairly close.
  
  For all you doubters of my work this map should add some validity that the Author used Gematria; because many stars that I found are close by sharing the same constellation.  Also numbers are strict representations for the star names and imply logic.
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• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  Koen G > 21-12-2016, 07:47 PM

  Hi Stellar
  
  It is indeed likely that those represents star names, but you should check the names better. I just looked up one on wikipedia. This is just one example of a problematic name, I think there will be more since many star names are relatively recent. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  
  

  Quote:In the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Alpha CVn had no name until the 17th century, when it was named Cor Caroli, which means "Charles's Heart". 

  
  Also, for example, Draco and Cetus are on extremely opposite ends of the celestial sphere, so it is highly unlikely that their stars will be placed next to each other...

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  stellar > 21-12-2016, 08:01 PM

  (21-12-2016, 07:47 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Stellar
  
  It is indeed likely that those represents star names, but you should check the names better. I just looked up one on wikipedia. This is just one example of a problematic name, I think there will be more since many star names are relatively recent. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  
  

  Quote:In the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Alpha CVn had no name until the 17th century, when it was named Cor Caroli, which means "Charles's Heart". 

  
  Also, for example, Draco and Cetus are on extremely opposite ends of the celestial sphere, so it is highly unlikely that their stars will be placed next to each other...

  Koen,
  
  It is quite possible that old vellum was used! And as far as star positions go, we don't know what the Author was thinking yet your right some mistakes are possible, but I feel this is good work.
  
  

  Quote:It has often been claimed, both before and after the release of the radiocarbon dating of the Voynich leaves, that it would have been either unlikely or impossible for the book’s creator to have found old vellum to make it from. This assumption has been used to presume the manuscript must have been made soon after the radiocarbon date of the vellum, which is approximately 1404-1438. It has been said that the cost of vellum and parchment throughout history has meant that it would not have ever been stored, blank, for long periods of time. And furthermore, the case of the palimpsest has been used to show that the value of vellum was so great that the religious scribes painstakingly bleached and scraped ancient manuscripts to reuse them. While all these may be true to some extent, during some times, in some places, what I have found is that it is not at all improbable that a Voynich author may have come across a batch of old, blank, vellum somewhere… and also, considering that some of the presumed intentions of said author, it would have actually been a choice more likely than one for your run of the mill herbal or astrological treatise.
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• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  -JKP- > 21-12-2016, 08:16 PM

  The ink used for the folio numbers and column letters on the first page differ in proportion (and possibly composition) from the text and illustrations (which suggests they may have been added by different people or at a different time) but the main body of text and illustrations are most likely contemporaneous with the parchment. Here are the results of the tests:
  
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• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  bunny > 21-12-2016, 08:32 PM

  (19-12-2016, 02:50 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (19-12-2016, 10:46 AM)bunny Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.bunny wrote: And to Stellar your work IS very accurate so don't be put off. 
  
  Bunny, I don't know how you can make a determination that it is accurate without knowing what is actually in the manuscript and without even knowing if there is meaning intended in the text. Even if there is meaning, you don't know which language was used—there are many other languages that bear a closer resemblance to the VMS structure than English.
  
  
  
  bunny wrote: I will put the translation and words pulled from his list later today when time.  It will not be the same as Stellar's choice because the manuscript allows different aspects to be seen.  It is factual and given the full word list a whole history could be pulled out.  This is not the mainstream academic approach be warned, but it is no ordinary manuscript, C15th or otherwise.
  
  I also don't know how you can determine that the translation is "factual". In addition to making a number of unsupported assumptions, you have made several pejorative statements about academic approaches and scientific method, but usually it's necessary to understand those methods before you pass judgment on them.

  
  Then let me reword to clear up any unclarity, Stella's work is the most interesting to me and the most in sympathy to my thoughts on the manuscript.  I find his work to be most alike the tread found in other theories which are outside the normal parameters of methodology. His results and others are relevant to my line of research and so I am interested and they are factual to that area of research.  I do understand scientific method and am not a stranger to the usual approach, but I don't think it is standard manuscript and looking beyond the standard approach follows.  His work is relevant to my thoughts if not to others.
  
  Unfortunately I did not get my translation of Stellar's letters (without reference to the words list, i.e., what would have been a final step in my method if I had that line of letters) on as soon as hoped but will do now. I have done this because it looked a familiar type of letter set.
  
  Bunny

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  Koen G > 21-12-2016, 08:37 PM

  Stellar: So I take it from you being okay with these results that you support the modern forgery hypothesis now? 
  
  And it's not just some mistakes. For example Argo Navis is known as one of the southernmost constellations, but you have it adjacent to northern constellations like Cassiopeia, Draco and Gemini. And Draco is one of those constellations that is tucked away at the very northernmost part of the sky, but you have it, judging by its neighboring stars, zigzag between the north and the deep south...

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  bunny > 21-12-2016, 08:40 PM

  (21-12-2016, 07:47 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi Stellar
  
  It is indeed likely that those represents star names, but you should check the names better. I just looked up one on wikipedia. This is just one example of a problematic name, I think there will be more since many star names are relatively recent. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  
  
  

  Quote:In the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Alpha CVn had no name until the 17th century, when it was named Cor Caroli, which means "Charles's Heart". 

  
  Also, for example, Draco and Cetus are on extremely opposite ends of the celestial sphere, so it is highly unlikely that their stars will be placed next to each other...

  
  It looks more like narrative of a story rather than placement of stars one next the other.  Makes sense to me, part of same thread again
  
  Bunny

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  Koen G > 21-12-2016, 08:45 PM

  Quote:It looks more like narrative of a story rather than placement of stars one next the other.  Makes sense to me, part of same thread again
  
  Bunny

  
  Do explain how it makes sense, I'm curious.

• RE: Lament from the Sea, New Method! f2r

  bunny > 21-12-2016, 08:49 PM

  (17-12-2016, 07:41 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Just take a look at Thomas' table on the previous page, I'll just post it here again. This is a veeeeery small section of the possible solutions. And still I can make lots of grammatical sentences with it.
  
  
  
  - Some older friend had ten gay druids.
  - Under oath will he blame the Lamb of God.
  - Lesbian pimp will age for gay King of Peace.
  - Isn't love childish, I'd pick magic and oral.
  
  This is fun
  
  So why are my sentences wrong?

  
  nerlm nninq... looked like incomplete translation of the type of words I have seen before, so I thought I would put it through end part of my own method.  Latin assumed:
  
  
  nerlm      nniq      rallm      he      neoe      ncek      nerallm
  
  nerlm
  Merlin +undetermined ending?
  
  nniq
  qui non
  
  rallm
  malum olor
  evil/apple   swan
  
  he
  haec
  this
  
  neoe
  eneco
  to kill/wear out
  
  ncek
  K. (abv.) Kaeso/Caeso (m), Caesula (f)   nec
   Name     not
  (Kaeso thought to be possibly linked to origin of name Caesar which later became used generically to mean Emperor (later Kaiser/Czar/emperor) often implying cruel, unjust tyrant.  K = very old form of name may be male, or female (Empress).  Could also be a other abbreviated name etc. beginning K, reason and name undetermined,
  
  nerallm
  ales Merlin
  winged/bird     Merlin
  
  
  Merlin(*) qui non malum olor haec eneco K. nec ales Merlin
  
  Merlin did not this (he/she) evil swan slay.   K. and not winged Merlin
                                             or
  Merlin did not.  This (he/she) evil swan slay K. and not winged Merlin
  
  There does seem to be some tie-up with the word list (the words in brackets similar in meaning, most literal comparison main choice.  Propose:
  
  

  Queen (some) await (beginning, search) the end (fresh (new))age. Magician (angel) bird druids (cometh)

  
  Stellar has said he is finding Druids, Celts and Britain, and I have to agree.
  
  Bunny
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