21-04-2026, 10:41 AM
In terms of what we should be looking for for "jong". Which spelling variants should we be considering as valid variants? For example, we consider mai and may to be effectively the same. What about "jong", "jung","joing", juing"? I've been pronouncing them like an english speaker, with them sounding completely different to eachother.
However, if we take the (modern) french pronunciation of oi and ui, how would these variants sound?
Joing would be "ʒ -oi -ng" / "ʒ-wuh-ng" (oi as in moi)
Juing would be "ʒ -ui -ng" / "ʒ-oo-ee-ng" (ui as in nuit)
However, modern juin does not pronounce ui as "oo-ee" like it does in juillet. According to the audio on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., juin is actually pronounced more like:
"ʒ-oo-uh-(n)" in paris.
"ʒ - oi -(n)" in Vosges (eastern france).
So, for some dialects that still exist, "joing" and "juing" would be pronounced the same way with oi. This makes sense, if you take "i" to have the sound from the french word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in both cases, you simply have the difference between o-i and u-i, which really can have some overlap depending on somebody's accent. Sound out both o-i and u-i (o-uh/u-uh) quickly, so quickly that you do not stress the w sound, they morph very easily into "o" and "u".
It's also possible that jong is a misspelling of joing (which I consider more likely now, as the only non-astrolabe finding of jong is a single jong in an ocean of joings). If jong is a misspelt joing, and joing may be pronounced the same as juing, we may already have found it everywhere.
I understand that we're supposed to be discussing 700 year old french, not modern, but perhaps it's a useful tool.
However, if we take the (modern) french pronunciation of oi and ui, how would these variants sound?
Joing would be "ʒ -oi -ng" / "ʒ-wuh-ng" (oi as in moi)
Juing would be "ʒ -ui -ng" / "ʒ-oo-ee-ng" (ui as in nuit)
However, modern juin does not pronounce ui as "oo-ee" like it does in juillet. According to the audio on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., juin is actually pronounced more like:
"ʒ-oo-uh-(n)" in paris.
"ʒ - oi -(n)" in Vosges (eastern france).
So, for some dialects that still exist, "joing" and "juing" would be pronounced the same way with oi. This makes sense, if you take "i" to have the sound from the french word You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in both cases, you simply have the difference between o-i and u-i, which really can have some overlap depending on somebody's accent. Sound out both o-i and u-i (o-uh/u-uh) quickly, so quickly that you do not stress the w sound, they morph very easily into "o" and "u".
It's also possible that jong is a misspelling of joing (which I consider more likely now, as the only non-astrolabe finding of jong is a single jong in an ocean of joings). If jong is a misspelt joing, and joing may be pronounced the same as juing, we may already have found it everywhere.
I understand that we're supposed to be discussing 700 year old french, not modern, but perhaps it's a useful tool.