Water, earth and air

[Jorge_Stolfi]

the "overnight" transformation to the statement in your Post #29  is simply amazing.

It is amazing what a Wkipedia page can do, isn't it?

Can we all use the same terminology???

Hmm, not sure I want to go along with that.  My point is precisely that,by the 1400s, the "nebuly line" of heraldry and the "wolkenband" of manuscript illuminations were two distinct things, even though they may have had a common origin in the distant past.  Artists who drew wolkenbands did not think of heraldry, and people who specified nebuly lines in blazons did not think of wolkenbands or boundaries between Earth and Heaven.

By the way, is it known when the term "nebuly line" was first used?  Not the line itself, but the name?

Considering the catalog of relevant 'Manuscript Miniature' images. Early examples of cosmic boundaries with noticeable nebuly tendencies are found in six sources between 1300-1340, but going on before 1300 requires an increasing allowance for pattern variation and fewer examples.

Artistry and heraldry are established a century before the VMs. Even if the basic patterns had come from different sources, they would have been conflated by now. Nebuly for clouds; wavy for water; rayonny for fire. [Pillow is not an option.] The VMs was just prior to the era of Ficino's conflation, planets = metals = gems = colors = virtues. The whole nine yards.

Not sure I follow here.  You are speaking of heraldry only, right?  Nothing to do with the wolkenbands of the artists?

Step 3: Presuming the VMs has medieval influences, if not real medieval origins, *apply* those medieval definitions to VMs illustrations. The result is an interesting trail of interpretation that connects the VMs critter to the historical Apocalypse de S Jean [BNF Fr. 13096]. Like the cosmic comparison, the uniqueness of the original sources, and the similarity of the VMs representations should incite a bit of curiosity. One might propose several connections with medieval heraldry that similarly demonstrate knowledge and intention by someone. However, part of that intention is to include ambiguity and even obfuscation. And additionally, the use of obscure, medieval information has confounded investigators prior to the "information age". Obscurity is coming back for another round.

This way of analyzing the VMS illustrations is self-validating hence unconvincing. "Consider every detail: if it resembles something from heraldry, it is heraldry; if not, it was added on purpose to obfuscate the heraldry. Even if 99% of the drawing has to be tagged 'obfuscation'."  Can you see the problem?

With the same approach one can conclude that the VMS is all about alchemy. Or how to reach the Indies by sea.  Or how to raise silkworms. Or Zoroastrism. Or how to pick up women in a tavern...

Again, the nebuly line of heraldry is such a simple design that people will often use it in drawings that have nothing to do with either heraldry or Heavens/Earth boundaries.  Like on the NW corner of f79r, where it is almost certainly a clumsy attempt to depict water splashing.

All the best , -- stolfi