25-03-2022, 10:49 PM
[quote="GeoffreySea" pid='49070' dateline='1645811161']
[I will add, if it's helpful, that there is new information that Khazar language was close to Crimean Tartar and Karachay language but ancestral to both of those. It would not be very close to Turkish except in general structure.]
Hello everyone,
The Crimean Tartar (Tatar) and Karachay languages are not separate languages, and they (and all the other languages mentioned here as Turkic) are simply different dialects of Turkish. There was a people whose language you define as "Khazar language". These were mainly Turks living in the Caspian region. They adopted the Jewish religion long ago. Later, they learned Hebrew of their own accord and taught their children Hebrew so that they could read religious texts. So over time (in hundreds of years) these people used their language as a mixture of Turkish and Hebrew. Of course, Persian and Arabic language also gave words to many languages in this region. Likewise, there are many Turkish words in these languages. The Khazar people voluntarily assimilated over time and began to identify themselves as Jews rather than Turks. In other words, they are mostly Turks in origin, but they have forgotten their mother language mostly.
There is no information that we can say that the author of the VM is Turkish nationally or not. But there are Turkish words in the VM content for sure. In addition, there are sections where we read Turkish as many full sentences and some full pages (because of this work is our free time work only). After a while, if academies and other independent researchers start to contribute, the reading process will accelerate.
We made presentations to Turkish language experts at 3 different universities in Turkey. In addition, In Azerbaijan, we explained the subject to the academicians in the Department of Turkish Language and Literature of the Azerbaijan Academy of Sciences. Reactions were very positive and supportive. In all of these presentations, we discussed almost all the details of ATA transcription together.
There was not even a single person who said that the texts we showed were not in Turkish. At the same time, they do not understand the dialect spoken by the author and why she/he used such a complex alphabet.
In other words, they could not understand why an alphabet with more than 100 characters was chosen when it was possible to write each word by choosing an alphabet with 29 or 33 letters. They also could not accurately predict the author's dialect. These issues were questioned as confusing, but no conclusion was reached. We, on the other hand, think that the author used such a complex alphabet because she/he wanted the book to be especially difficult to read. Because there is no other logical explanation for it.
The head of the Department of Turkish Language and Literature at Istinye University (Istanbul) indicated to me the possibility that the author might be speaking from minority dialects. Other stronger possibilities are that the author may have deliberately used mixed dialects, or that the author was a speaker of one of the sub-dialect groups that is now forgotten.
On the other hand, the majority of the local words used by the author are the words that are more common in the dialects of the Black Sea area and Thrace regions, and most of them are still used words. We see these most words in both past and present dictionaries.
Therefore, it cannot be said that there is no possibility that the author could be a Turkish-speaking Khazarian.
Likewise, the author, could be a native speaker of Greek, Italian or one of the European languages, who may have used the Turkish language in this book. In other words, it is not important what nationality she/he is from, but what language she/he used to wrote the work in VM.
However, I think that academics who are busy with the Turkish language avoid making hasty explanations on this issue because they cannot define the dialect of the author. However, of course, this situation cannot always continue and one day a university will emerge and announce with an academic statement that the content is in Turkish. In any case, we will continue our VM related works to read more page.
However, in our VM related article, we defined the language not as Turkish, but as Turkic. Because we also do not yet know which dialect of the author is using.
Thanks,
Ahmet Ardıç
[I will add, if it's helpful, that there is new information that Khazar language was close to Crimean Tartar and Karachay language but ancestral to both of those. It would not be very close to Turkish except in general structure.]
Hello everyone,
The Crimean Tartar (Tatar) and Karachay languages are not separate languages, and they (and all the other languages mentioned here as Turkic) are simply different dialects of Turkish. There was a people whose language you define as "Khazar language". These were mainly Turks living in the Caspian region. They adopted the Jewish religion long ago. Later, they learned Hebrew of their own accord and taught their children Hebrew so that they could read religious texts. So over time (in hundreds of years) these people used their language as a mixture of Turkish and Hebrew. Of course, Persian and Arabic language also gave words to many languages in this region. Likewise, there are many Turkish words in these languages. The Khazar people voluntarily assimilated over time and began to identify themselves as Jews rather than Turks. In other words, they are mostly Turks in origin, but they have forgotten their mother language mostly.
There is no information that we can say that the author of the VM is Turkish nationally or not. But there are Turkish words in the VM content for sure. In addition, there are sections where we read Turkish as many full sentences and some full pages (because of this work is our free time work only). After a while, if academies and other independent researchers start to contribute, the reading process will accelerate.
We made presentations to Turkish language experts at 3 different universities in Turkey. In addition, In Azerbaijan, we explained the subject to the academicians in the Department of Turkish Language and Literature of the Azerbaijan Academy of Sciences. Reactions were very positive and supportive. In all of these presentations, we discussed almost all the details of ATA transcription together.
There was not even a single person who said that the texts we showed were not in Turkish. At the same time, they do not understand the dialect spoken by the author and why she/he used such a complex alphabet.
In other words, they could not understand why an alphabet with more than 100 characters was chosen when it was possible to write each word by choosing an alphabet with 29 or 33 letters. They also could not accurately predict the author's dialect. These issues were questioned as confusing, but no conclusion was reached. We, on the other hand, think that the author used such a complex alphabet because she/he wanted the book to be especially difficult to read. Because there is no other logical explanation for it.
The head of the Department of Turkish Language and Literature at Istinye University (Istanbul) indicated to me the possibility that the author might be speaking from minority dialects. Other stronger possibilities are that the author may have deliberately used mixed dialects, or that the author was a speaker of one of the sub-dialect groups that is now forgotten.
On the other hand, the majority of the local words used by the author are the words that are more common in the dialects of the Black Sea area and Thrace regions, and most of them are still used words. We see these most words in both past and present dictionaries.
Therefore, it cannot be said that there is no possibility that the author could be a Turkish-speaking Khazarian.
Likewise, the author, could be a native speaker of Greek, Italian or one of the European languages, who may have used the Turkish language in this book. In other words, it is not important what nationality she/he is from, but what language she/he used to wrote the work in VM.
However, I think that academics who are busy with the Turkish language avoid making hasty explanations on this issue because they cannot define the dialect of the author. However, of course, this situation cannot always continue and one day a university will emerge and announce with an academic statement that the content is in Turkish. In any case, we will continue our VM related works to read more page.
However, in our VM related article, we defined the language not as Turkish, but as Turkic. Because we also do not yet know which dialect of the author is using.
Thanks,
Ahmet Ardıç