Don,
Okay, great. If your really are interested, look at the tub patterns in the outer ring of Pisces and on the Aries pages. Compare those patterns with the patterns found in any standard heraldic heraldic reference. Vertical stripes correspond to a paly. Horizontal stripes correspond to a barry. Diagonal stripes correspond to a bendy or bendy sinister. Of course stripes are just stripes, you may say. Then what about the chevrons, the papelonny patterns and the whirlpool. Are these just generic, unspecified patterns in your view? Heraldry gives each of these patterns a name that is not anachronistic or otherwise ruled out for any reason I know. Granted the images are not picture perfect - looking at what is in the VMs. Still they are strongly suggestive in a ideological sense, especially in a culture where heraldry was in 'everyday' use. And granted not every last VMs example may be identifiable. How can we project that expectation? But by my own experience I know that you can't find papelonny if you don't know papelonny You can't associate the Fieschi insignia and the red galero if you don't know the relevant history.
Did you know that 'Plain' is a relevant heraldic pattern? 'Plain' is an unadorned field of a single tincture. Solid blue is a valid heraldic insignia. I have found it associated with Berrington of Chester. The identification may not be not exclusive, but in no way does that make it heraldically invalid. Solid silver tincture works as well. The heraldry you find is the heraldry you know. And conversely, not finding it, when you don't know it, doesn't really prove anything.
The VMs is not an instructional text on the topic of heraldry. There are only three pages where heraldry is relevant, and even there it is not a clear and straight forward presentation. The examples used are intentionally obscure and obfuscated. How will anyone, unable to define or describe or even name the traditional papelonny pattern, ever be able to find the papelonny pun???????????????????????? The author, meanwhile, is one who possessed the capacities of a pun creator! Can you see how the pun works?
Let me say again that I do not propose *any* direct connection between heraldic representations and the text. The direct relationship that interests me, is that between the text and the patterned rectangles that are found in those circular bands of text - what Stolfi called "'Start here' markers" in his descriptions on Rene's site. *A pair* of such markers is found on White Aries, another one in Cancer, and other variations are scattered in similar, circular VMs bands.
The direct relationship of heraldry is with the patterned marker - as illustrated in White Aries.
Heraldry will only be germane to the solution if the marked text segments of White Aries are part of that solution. In my estimation, there is every chance it could go either way. But I also have to ask, why does this complex, historically grounded construction sit carefully tucked away in the VMs Zodiac? Can it possibly still look as if everything is accidental and generic *after* the relevant historical and traditional facts are known? That's preposterous. And the only alternative is intentional creation of the subjective identifications and the objective confirmations found in these illustrations.
I don't see why you should expect my pictorial investigations should have anything to do with your linguistic research. And I don't believe that the results of my investigations are in any way diminished because they fail to connect with your work on deconstruction. Yet it seems that is what you are suggesting.
The evidence I have offered is in the multiple confirmations based on object location within the VMs illustrations, the continuous conformation to the pairing paradigm and a fair number of interesting and coordinated identifications involving both armorial and ecclesiastical heraldry and religious traditions that date back to Homer and Deuteronomy, particularly given the very limited amount of data to start with and the potential desire for some level of secrecy. I am mystified to understand what you expect that real evidence should consist of? Facts, dates and individuals involved have all been repeatedly stated in various conversations and several significant contributions have come back as a result. In Linda's posting today, a nebuly line on an armorial insignia, provides another example at an interesting connection to time and place. I trust you've seen it.
Okay, great. If your really are interested, look at the tub patterns in the outer ring of Pisces and on the Aries pages. Compare those patterns with the patterns found in any standard heraldic heraldic reference. Vertical stripes correspond to a paly. Horizontal stripes correspond to a barry. Diagonal stripes correspond to a bendy or bendy sinister. Of course stripes are just stripes, you may say. Then what about the chevrons, the papelonny patterns and the whirlpool. Are these just generic, unspecified patterns in your view? Heraldry gives each of these patterns a name that is not anachronistic or otherwise ruled out for any reason I know. Granted the images are not picture perfect - looking at what is in the VMs. Still they are strongly suggestive in a ideological sense, especially in a culture where heraldry was in 'everyday' use. And granted not every last VMs example may be identifiable. How can we project that expectation? But by my own experience I know that you can't find papelonny if you don't know papelonny You can't associate the Fieschi insignia and the red galero if you don't know the relevant history.
Did you know that 'Plain' is a relevant heraldic pattern? 'Plain' is an unadorned field of a single tincture. Solid blue is a valid heraldic insignia. I have found it associated with Berrington of Chester. The identification may not be not exclusive, but in no way does that make it heraldically invalid. Solid silver tincture works as well. The heraldry you find is the heraldry you know. And conversely, not finding it, when you don't know it, doesn't really prove anything.
The VMs is not an instructional text on the topic of heraldry. There are only three pages where heraldry is relevant, and even there it is not a clear and straight forward presentation. The examples used are intentionally obscure and obfuscated. How will anyone, unable to define or describe or even name the traditional papelonny pattern, ever be able to find the papelonny pun???????????????????????? The author, meanwhile, is one who possessed the capacities of a pun creator! Can you see how the pun works?
Let me say again that I do not propose *any* direct connection between heraldic representations and the text. The direct relationship that interests me, is that between the text and the patterned rectangles that are found in those circular bands of text - what Stolfi called "'Start here' markers" in his descriptions on Rene's site. *A pair* of such markers is found on White Aries, another one in Cancer, and other variations are scattered in similar, circular VMs bands.
The direct relationship of heraldry is with the patterned marker - as illustrated in White Aries.
Heraldry will only be germane to the solution if the marked text segments of White Aries are part of that solution. In my estimation, there is every chance it could go either way. But I also have to ask, why does this complex, historically grounded construction sit carefully tucked away in the VMs Zodiac? Can it possibly still look as if everything is accidental and generic *after* the relevant historical and traditional facts are known? That's preposterous. And the only alternative is intentional creation of the subjective identifications and the objective confirmations found in these illustrations.
I don't see why you should expect my pictorial investigations should have anything to do with your linguistic research. And I don't believe that the results of my investigations are in any way diminished because they fail to connect with your work on deconstruction. Yet it seems that is what you are suggesting.
The evidence I have offered is in the multiple confirmations based on object location within the VMs illustrations, the continuous conformation to the pairing paradigm and a fair number of interesting and coordinated identifications involving both armorial and ecclesiastical heraldry and religious traditions that date back to Homer and Deuteronomy, particularly given the very limited amount of data to start with and the potential desire for some level of secrecy. I am mystified to understand what you expect that real evidence should consist of? Facts, dates and individuals involved have all been repeatedly stated in various conversations and several significant contributions have come back as a result. In Linda's posting today, a nebuly line on an armorial insignia, provides another example at an interesting connection to time and place. I trust you've seen it.