To me, it's not about attribution. It's about definition. Heraldry is a valid, historical field of knowledge predating the manufacture of VMs parchment by roughly 200 years or more and heraldry provides definitions of the lines of field division as I posted just above, definitions of the patterns of ordinaries and sub-ordinaries and rules for the choice and combination of tinctures.
Wolkenands and nebuly lines are not the same thing. Nebuly lines can be seen as a basic pattern in some, but certainly not all examples of cloud bands. In the works of Christine de Pizan, the 'Book of the Queen' used an elaborated nebuly line, while the 'Knight's Book' used a wavy line and rainbows to set off the manifestations of various classical deities. There are hints of these rainbows in VMs Quire 13 - (not my discovery) - by the way.
Where are the wolkenbands in the VMs? Are they in the nebuly plant leaves? Can they be found in Quire 13? Had someone pointed out *that particular band* in the central rosette before Don saw it? And Ellie's comparison with the d' Oresme cosmos, now there is a wolkenband in d' Oresme, but the VMs gives us what? A generic, meandering line that wobbles back and forth? Isn't that a helpful definition??
Heraldry provides a clear definition. But without heraldry, I suppose old, generic wobbly will have to do.
Sorry to be picky, but since terminology and definitions are important, there are a few difficulties with the recent reference to "bulbs, wavy (nebuly) lines and rays".
Rays: The pointed shapes in the outer ring labelled 'light halo' are good. And possibly all the hair-like lines - okay
Wavy (nebuly) lines: 'clouds and steam' Lines are either wavy or nebuly, according to definition. Nebuly lines are bulbous. These lines in the central rosette are more complex than simple bulbs. Technically, the line has a sort of continuous, running 'mmm' shape, which would be an engrailed line on the heraldic chart. An invected version of the nebuly pattern was also posted a while back.
Bulbs: 'stones, ground?' So the bulbs are already incorporated as the waves and troughs of the nebuly line. What I see then are several bands that have an alternated, overlapping scale pattern - a fish-scale pattern or scale-mail armor, fastened with rivets. - Rather than having bulbs used twice.
Definitions are significant. Definitions take something that was generic, unnoticed and unnamed and turn it into something that has a name and an existence. An old dust-covered, historical existence perhaps, but an existence nonetheless. Naming something provides an ideological identification by which things can be known and associated without a total reliance on absolute visual similarity. Heraldry provides a set of definitions and examples with interesting historical correspondences in the first three pages of the VMs Zodiac. I am suggesting that where a valid reference system exists and appears to be applicable, why not try it and see how it goes?
Wolkenands and nebuly lines are not the same thing. Nebuly lines can be seen as a basic pattern in some, but certainly not all examples of cloud bands. In the works of Christine de Pizan, the 'Book of the Queen' used an elaborated nebuly line, while the 'Knight's Book' used a wavy line and rainbows to set off the manifestations of various classical deities. There are hints of these rainbows in VMs Quire 13 - (not my discovery) - by the way.
Where are the wolkenbands in the VMs? Are they in the nebuly plant leaves? Can they be found in Quire 13? Had someone pointed out *that particular band* in the central rosette before Don saw it? And Ellie's comparison with the d' Oresme cosmos, now there is a wolkenband in d' Oresme, but the VMs gives us what? A generic, meandering line that wobbles back and forth? Isn't that a helpful definition??
Heraldry provides a clear definition. But without heraldry, I suppose old, generic wobbly will have to do.
Sorry to be picky, but since terminology and definitions are important, there are a few difficulties with the recent reference to "bulbs, wavy (nebuly) lines and rays".
Rays: The pointed shapes in the outer ring labelled 'light halo' are good. And possibly all the hair-like lines - okay
Wavy (nebuly) lines: 'clouds and steam' Lines are either wavy or nebuly, according to definition. Nebuly lines are bulbous. These lines in the central rosette are more complex than simple bulbs. Technically, the line has a sort of continuous, running 'mmm' shape, which would be an engrailed line on the heraldic chart. An invected version of the nebuly pattern was also posted a while back.
Bulbs: 'stones, ground?' So the bulbs are already incorporated as the waves and troughs of the nebuly line. What I see then are several bands that have an alternated, overlapping scale pattern - a fish-scale pattern or scale-mail armor, fastened with rivets. - Rather than having bulbs used twice.
Definitions are significant. Definitions take something that was generic, unnoticed and unnamed and turn it into something that has a name and an existence. An old dust-covered, historical existence perhaps, but an existence nonetheless. Naming something provides an ideological identification by which things can be known and associated without a total reliance on absolute visual similarity. Heraldry provides a set of definitions and examples with interesting historical correspondences in the first three pages of the VMs Zodiac. I am suggesting that where a valid reference system exists and appears to be applicable, why not try it and see how it goes?