Ideas from a newbie

[Koen G]

Hi Tisquesusa

Having myself entered Voynich territory only half a year ago, I would like to start this post by giving you one piece of advice:
Don't cement your ideas about the manuscript too soon, and be open to change your mind a lot. That's been my approach from the start: I work with hypotheses, but as soon as I get the feeling that an idea isn't quite right, it goes into the trash. Over the last few months I must have changed my mind a hundred times about various aspects, and I'm so happy I did.

- my idea about this mysterious manuscript is that it is written by a number of authors (see below) to represent experiences using different psychoactive herbs (herbal), representing the "visions" seen in those trips (astronomical, nymphs/biological) and the "final" (in the current order) section describes the use of them to get the best "trip" (recipes)

This might be the part of your post I disagree most strongly with. I don't see any reason to assume that the plants are psychoactive (so many of them?). And the whole idea sounds a bit anachronistic to me. Too modern. Sure, there are traditions where forms of intoxication or ecstasy are recorded, but those are framed in a mystic or religious context. The star charts in the Voynich look too accurate and thought out to be the product of someone's "trip".

If you think there is still something to this idea, you might want to look for some historical context:
- How many types of psychoactive plants were know and used in the time and place you have in mind?
- Was there drug use? What kinds? In which circles?
- Were drug-induced visions ever described?

I think your idea is a perfectly acceptable "first impression" of the manuscript, but the more you read about it and the more you study it in detail, the more you will see that there is quite some depth to it, and that most sections are too well-structured to be the result of visions.

- the text is written in code (see below) to prevent others (outside of the "circle of friends/authors") from knowing its meaning and especially to keep the power of the Church away, in case the document would be found

This is a definite possibility. A group of people who used a certain way of writing that only they understood. Though the intent need not bee to hide the information. The script might also be a way to abbreviate information, or an attempt to adapt a foreign writing system. Or a blend of a desire for secrecy and efficiency and transcription and... I think at this point, nobody knows for sure and all avenues are still being explored.

- the manuscript was part of a group of people/friends/secret "society" (but on a much less organised scale) who had their tripping experiences together and wanted to share their knowledge only between them, like a private message

The problem I see here is that before the rise of the printing press, people would rely much more on oral tradition and their own memory. Manufacturing a manuscript was an expensive and time-consuming undertaking, a choice that wouldn't have been taken lightly. It would have been much more efficient and secure for these people if they kept their knowledge between them in their heads, instead of entrusting it to a visible, suspicious, cumbersome and expensive manuscript.

I don't believe the manuscript is produced by 1 author
I suspect the authors to be friends/close people who share something between them

I agree with these statements, but for a different reason. I generally agree with Diane O'Donovan's views on the manuscript (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.). She argues that much of the manuscript's contents originated in the Hellenistic period and relates to the Eastern trade routes that connected the Mediterranean with places like India. The material was maintained, copied, stylistically adjusted... by the people who used it, i.e. people, professions or communities involved in intercontinental trade. Because of its immediate practical use (navigation, valuable plants, spices, timbers...) the copies were usually rather faithful. Eventually, this material reached Europe, where it was copied in the 15th century.

I don't agree with Diane about everything that happened in between the Hellenistic origin and the 15thC copy though. Generally, I recognize a stronger input from "mainstream" Greco-Roman culture, while she attributes more of the manuscript's imagery to later Eastern influences.

Either way, the view that the 15thC scribe(s) who made the manuscript we have now (MS Beinecke 408), were basically a human copy machine, is a minority view. As far as I am aware, Diane and I are the only active researchers who explicitly defend the idea that most of the manuscript's imagery was completed before the rise of Christianity as the dominant culture in the Roman empire.

But I think you are right in recognizing that the contents appear to have grown over time, and don't look like the work of one individual.

So in a way I also agree with your idea that the manuscript belonged to a group of people with their own conventions, and that is why it hasn't been understood yet. Although I attribute the fact that we don't understand the images to:
a) their great antiquity
b) the fact that they for a unique blend between of original Greco-Roman images adapted by later Eastern cultures who used the material on the Eastern trade routes.

The end results looks alien, but we can pick the pieces apart with effort and an open mind.

1 - it is a cypher of real languages, but not -as I see everywhere!- 1 language, yet a combination of various languages/dialects/dead languages, spoken by the "circle"/group of people involved in this

This is again pretty close to what I believe at the moment (I often add "at the moment" because I take pride in gradually adjusting my views whenever I have to )
My first series of blog posts was about how I think the "small plants section" was originally an attempt to teach Greek speakers the local names of various important commodities, like saffron, teak (timber), sugar... Either way, I think being prepared to find a variety of languages will help us understand the manuscript eventually.

I don't specialize in the origin of the actual script, so I won't comment on that.
Parts of the text may indeed refer to page numbers or coordinates or whatever, but that's also not my area of expertise - others here are better informed

As stated many times a Central-European location would make most sense. I agree with that and think the writer(s)/drawer(s) are more northern European. All (or most of them, I cannot claim to have seen all) nymphs have blonde hair. That doesn't point to an Italian, Spanish, purely Slavic or even (southern) French origin. "German" (a country that didn't exist in those ages), Dutch or Flemish origin would make more sense, maybe even Swedish/Danish.

The blond nymphs have mislead many at first sight.

Here's a Roman mosaic from North Africa, first centuries CE. You can find many more examples.



Just to say something, what if the nymphs represent spirits or deities or... and those were imagined as "fair", as the gods often were? I imagine most people around you have dark hair, but if I ask you to draw some angels, you might make them blonde as well.. you don't have to draw them looking like your friends or neighbours

Origin is European

It has been noted by some it could be Chinese/Asian but I don't see that; the people look European and especially the Chinese zodiac is different from the European one and that is used (although not starting with the common Aries sign).

I agree with Diane that there are influences of Eastern culture in the manuscript - that doesn't mean that its origin is Chinese, or Asian for that matter - I don't think it is. Places like Greco-Roman Egypt saw many cultures meet and mix. Besides that, it often happens with images that have reached us from ancient times, that they have passed through the hands of different cultures in succession.

The possibility of the key already known

This is another possibility that seems likely. The Vatican has many secret files, not accessible to anyone and the 600 years of history could easily have meant that the manuscript has already been decoded (probably with a cypher that has been kept secret/destroyed on purpose) but that the language and meaning are kept secret by those "circles" or "societies". It could even have been descendants of the writers themselves.

This seems way too "Dan Brown" to me, but hey, everything is possible I guess