21-05-2020, 06:24 PM
Thanks for the image and the poem. You night-shift ninjas are awesome!
Yes, there was a lot of discussion about the bathers and balneological literature. Just not sure if that VMs discussion got to this particular illustration. I have seen where the four illustrations are compared in a literary footnote, now that I know to look for it.
As it turns out, according to the info provided, the two versions in the Burgundy library are dated 1403-1404 - produced in Paris at the same time but they are different.
It's BNF Fr. 836 that comes in next, dated 1407-1409, and that is the image that matches with the image in Harley 4431.
BNF Fr. 836 was in the library of the Duke of Berry 1413-1416.
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My view of the VMs starts with the comparison to the BNF fr. 565 cosmos. The provenance of this source sets a starting point of Paris about 1410, and continues on from there. And during the time that has followed that recovery, provenance from other investigations has been shown to be congruent. The provenance from comparisons in various VMs investigations starts to accumulate. Both the 'Oresme' and the 'Berry Apocalypse' were in the same library. It's as if the story starts in the Berry library and then moves to the Burgundy library. A number of the de Pizan books clearly came from Paris to the Burgundy library.
Then there is the situation with various cosmic diagrams attributed to Gossuin de Metz. The Burgundy library has two version: MS 11184 (France, c. 1350) and MS 11185 (<Omit>, c. 1325), both of which show the poly-concentric structure of planets in the second, elements and planets in the first. This is not the uncommon, simplified structure of inverted T-O earth, surrounding stars, and cosmic boundary of Oresme 565, the VMs, and the Paris (1430-1440) of de Metz (Harley 331). Even though the VMs makes the choice of linguistic representation rather than pictorial representation, this is still an uncommon group with provenance initially tied to Paris.
Third there are the elements more specifically located to the Duchy of Burgundy, and it all seems to fit into a time between 1410 and 1430, putting VMs completion after 1430.
Yes, there was a lot of discussion about the bathers and balneological literature. Just not sure if that VMs discussion got to this particular illustration. I have seen where the four illustrations are compared in a literary footnote, now that I know to look for it.
As it turns out, according to the info provided, the two versions in the Burgundy library are dated 1403-1404 - produced in Paris at the same time but they are different.
It's BNF Fr. 836 that comes in next, dated 1407-1409, and that is the image that matches with the image in Harley 4431.
BNF Fr. 836 was in the library of the Duke of Berry 1413-1416.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
My view of the VMs starts with the comparison to the BNF fr. 565 cosmos. The provenance of this source sets a starting point of Paris about 1410, and continues on from there. And during the time that has followed that recovery, provenance from other investigations has been shown to be congruent. The provenance from comparisons in various VMs investigations starts to accumulate. Both the 'Oresme' and the 'Berry Apocalypse' were in the same library. It's as if the story starts in the Berry library and then moves to the Burgundy library. A number of the de Pizan books clearly came from Paris to the Burgundy library.
Then there is the situation with various cosmic diagrams attributed to Gossuin de Metz. The Burgundy library has two version: MS 11184 (France, c. 1350) and MS 11185 (<Omit>, c. 1325), both of which show the poly-concentric structure of planets in the second, elements and planets in the first. This is not the uncommon, simplified structure of inverted T-O earth, surrounding stars, and cosmic boundary of Oresme 565, the VMs, and the Paris (1430-1440) of de Metz (Harley 331). Even though the VMs makes the choice of linguistic representation rather than pictorial representation, this is still an uncommon group with provenance initially tied to Paris.
Third there are the elements more specifically located to the Duchy of Burgundy, and it all seems to fit into a time between 1410 and 1430, putting VMs completion after 1430.