(11-11-2019, 02:52 AM)Mark Knowles wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Well to me it looks like a 4. Without a higher resolution scan I suppose we can't resolve what has been written there. From my research four was often written 4, though that was not the only way it could be written. I never suggested the numeral "7", though I am not sure that you are right that it looked quite as different from the modern 7 as you suggest.
No, it was NOT often written "4" in the early 15th century, it was usually written l. It was SOMETIMES written 4, but definitely with less frequency. By the late 15th century, it was often written "4", but some scribes were still using l (probably the older ones).
Quote:Whether you look at manuscripts every day or not does not resolve the question of what that shape is, this is largely a visual question.
If it's a visual question, then looking at manuscripts every day does make a difference in familiarity with the shapes. I am very familiar with how they wrote four and how much variance there was from scribe to scribe. I have collected hundreds of samples of medieval numerals and charted the transition from IIII (up to the late 14th century) to l (very late 14th century to early 15th century) to 4 (mid- and later-15th century, with a smattering of scribes using it in the early 15th century).
Quote:It is worth noting that according to some the "4" occurs often in the manuscript, if this is a 4 then it might be worth comparing with those examples i.e. 4o 4P etc.
I don't know who is saying that "4" occurs often in the manuscript. The SHAPE for 4 occurs with a certain amount of frequency, but the older shape for four (the l shape) occurs with much greater frequency.
I'm not even sure where you are seeing "4". The first three strokes are not "4"-shaped. They are not even connected. On the left there are two vertical strokes, the first with a slight hook (which was common for vertical strokes and sometimes the number 1) and underneath is a slightly curved horizontal stroke (almost like a tail on a "y" except it's not connected to the two vertical strokes). No one wrote 4 that way.