08-04-2016, 07:21 PM
I must say I really appreciate your openness of mind. I have the impression most people won't even consider talking about possible earlier sources for the VM. I never really understood why, since for so many other medieval manuscripts previous sources can be found or must be assumed, often crossing national and linguistic borders.
I agree, there are plenty of books full of plant drawings, for example. So as far as the Voynich botanical imagery goes, the lack of stereotypical medieval people is no problem.
But... Genuine question: is there a medieval parallel for the Voynich "nymph" illustrations? Rene once mentioned their number, if I recall correctly it was over 400.
So we have images of hundreds of naked women and some men. Among those, there are (with just a couple of possible exceptions):
- No kings
- No knights
- No Jesus
- No winged Angels
- No recognizable saints
- Little references to social standing (although various women (!) wear crowns and some people appear to wear fancy clothing)
Unless I'm horribly mistaken, it is quite un-medieval to depict so many people without these attributes. One's place in society was a crucial part of the medieval mindset, but those typical clues are missing from the Voynich nymph drawings.
Considering this, I understand why most people assume(d) that MS Beinecke 408 was the creation of a single, rather deviant person. These nymph drawings had no place in common medieval society.
In that case, however, I think it is also justified to start exploring the possibility of older sources. Perhaps even assume that - why not - MS Beinecke 408 is a Medieval copy of a type of manuscript that is now totally lost, a lucky survivor of a lost tradition. What Diane has been doing, and I am now also trying to do in my own way, is look for clues that could point us to those sources.
My own findings in the root-and-leaf section point towards a linguistic and culturally Greek background. Together with the trade route-related plant names and identifications, that still leaves quite a number of possible times and places open, though I quite like the Byzantium idea. Until a better one comes along, perhaps
(08-04-2016, 04:34 PM)VViews wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There are literally countless European medieval books of medicine, bestiaries, herbals, and other technical/scientific manuscripts that feature no angels, saints or Christian imagery in their illustrations, although they may (or not) refer to them in the text. Admittedly, I know less about Byzantium, but looking at the herbals ReneZ linked to in the Touwaide thread on this forum, I don't see any religious references in the illustrations there either.
I agree, there are plenty of books full of plant drawings, for example. So as far as the Voynich botanical imagery goes, the lack of stereotypical medieval people is no problem.
But... Genuine question: is there a medieval parallel for the Voynich "nymph" illustrations? Rene once mentioned their number, if I recall correctly it was over 400.
So we have images of hundreds of naked women and some men. Among those, there are (with just a couple of possible exceptions):
- No kings
- No knights
- No Jesus
- No winged Angels
- No recognizable saints
- Little references to social standing (although various women (!) wear crowns and some people appear to wear fancy clothing)
Unless I'm horribly mistaken, it is quite un-medieval to depict so many people without these attributes. One's place in society was a crucial part of the medieval mindset, but those typical clues are missing from the Voynich nymph drawings.
Considering this, I understand why most people assume(d) that MS Beinecke 408 was the creation of a single, rather deviant person. These nymph drawings had no place in common medieval society.
In that case, however, I think it is also justified to start exploring the possibility of older sources. Perhaps even assume that - why not - MS Beinecke 408 is a Medieval copy of a type of manuscript that is now totally lost, a lucky survivor of a lost tradition. What Diane has been doing, and I am now also trying to do in my own way, is look for clues that could point us to those sources.
My own findings in the root-and-leaf section point towards a linguistic and culturally Greek background. Together with the trade route-related plant names and identifications, that still leaves quite a number of possible times and places open, though I quite like the Byzantium idea. Until a better one comes along, perhaps