08-04-2019, 09:08 PM
Rene: Yes, well discussions often diverge from their starting point. I started by addressing Koen's point and then here we are.
My point was to prove that there is a chance that it is a substitution cipher.
Again, unfortunately, I have to disagree with you here. My use of the word "atypical" is crucial here. I have not said that it is "an example of a 15th century diplomatic cipher in the style of Tranchedino." I have said that it could be a cipher with fundamental logical similarities with diplomatic ciphers. It is not hard to think of ciphers which are not diplomatic ciphers, but could be closely related to them.
I have already addressed the question of the number of characters, here and on Nick's blog. By considering sequences of characters mapping to individual letters it is perfectly possible to provide a much large number of mappings. I think rare characters likely correspond with nomenclator.
I have addressed the question of structure here or on Nick's blog. I think how spaces are placed could effect the positional appearance. e.g “Onc eup onatim eth erew asam ann am edmark” -> “Once upon a time there was a man named mark”. So here spaces are placed such that vowels are always at the start of words. A question for you is that if all spaces were removed from the Voynich do you think the positional structure would still exist? Another possibility I like less is that it could be a diplomatic cipher with anagrams, so breaking the positional structure.
A standard diplomatic cipher could I daresay have been broken by Friedman, Tiltman and probably many others, but an "atypical" diplomatic cipher maybe not.
My point was to prove that there is a chance that it is a substitution cipher.
Again, unfortunately, I have to disagree with you here. My use of the word "atypical" is crucial here. I have not said that it is "an example of a 15th century diplomatic cipher in the style of Tranchedino." I have said that it could be a cipher with fundamental logical similarities with diplomatic ciphers. It is not hard to think of ciphers which are not diplomatic ciphers, but could be closely related to them.
I have already addressed the question of the number of characters, here and on Nick's blog. By considering sequences of characters mapping to individual letters it is perfectly possible to provide a much large number of mappings. I think rare characters likely correspond with nomenclator.
I have addressed the question of structure here or on Nick's blog. I think how spaces are placed could effect the positional appearance. e.g “Onc eup onatim eth erew asam ann am edmark” -> “Once upon a time there was a man named mark”. So here spaces are placed such that vowels are always at the start of words. A question for you is that if all spaces were removed from the Voynich do you think the positional structure would still exist? Another possibility I like less is that it could be a diplomatic cipher with anagrams, so breaking the positional structure.
A standard diplomatic cipher could I daresay have been broken by Friedman, Tiltman and probably many others, but an "atypical" diplomatic cipher maybe not.