Portolan Map Possibilities
#23
I had a thought about the spindel, or thing. In one case i see it as pointing from Genoa to Venice then to the Danube Delta of the Black Sea, in a roundabout way. But now i see it as a possible windrose line as well.


Also, i had the thought that the reason why some things may not look as they normally do in how they are laid out in quire 13 may be because they were working with piecemeal charts, or rutters. Just like Michael of Rhodes' copy page of the Atlantic coast. A snippet, just what you need to sail from here to there, wherever that may be. Then you collect those and turn them into longer ones to make a map of a larger area. I guess you check each one that comes along for more info. 

[Image: images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQI9OkhCgZcJ5-ZbCTPF...TDghbVbfA7]

[Image: CZpyw7uWEAEaIDV?format=jpg&name=small][Image: screen-shot-2017-09-08-at-11712-pmpng.pn...ress&w=609]

I suggest that the two are analogous, but without the eastern/upper shoreline, which is why it is drawn as though it is smooth like a pool, it is devoid of detail for those places, and there are far fewer places shown here. If we are lucky, we may get it filled in through the text. Or this may simply be a short and snappy here's whats around here. 

Looking at the eastern edge of the Italian peninsula only, look for sheltered ports. I see 4 that stand out the most as being partially open circles. There is a bucket for three of them, 1 2 and 4. 3, if you look closely at the nymph touching the edge of the shore, also has a half port line drawn next to her leg, it is analogous to the spur on the boot. As it is not coloured in a contrasting colour, it does not stand out. It might be slightly out of place, but i think that may be commentary on other maps.

When you look at the alternative, which they were starting to translate in 1406 in Florence, i believe, you could see why you might want to keep to the portolans. Here is a 1467 version of Ptolemy's Italy. There is the addition of the interior information like the mountains, rivers, and lakes. Or should i say lake, in this case, for the area we are looking at, but the shape and directions of everything are somewhat off. I guess that is the difference compass directions make. Here we can see the same 4 sheltered spots, 1 and 4 are little holes in the shore, 2 and 3 are mountains.

[Image: 800px-Cales_nell%27Italia_di_Tolomeo.jpg]

Is this why the vms shows this water body as horizontal when it is actually more like a 45 degree angle with north up? To comment on the positioning? To hide it? To comment on the east up tradition? And where is the spur? Is it those islands? No, but it should be nearby... it's that rock where the boot turns a corner.  So really the vms has it right, more similar to the portolan than the Ptolemy.

This next one shows enough to give it away but pretend it was just the western shoreline of italy, with land facing up,  or east up, so all the points on the western shore face down. Can you see where the mountains/arches come into it? It stands for the mountains down the centre of the peninsula, which sends rivers down to the ocean, it also resembles the tips and ports. The second last port is on a curve, shown by the water streams joining, which makes sense, imagine a corner with a mountain on each side, both of them would drain into the same place. The last port is on the toe of the boot, after the curve. 

The nymphs are the communities, their positions tell stories about them. I think the ones that have hands on hips means a rutter exists. That the Venice one is coloured gold makes me think this, because i recently read someone said no one should attempt the Venice lagoon without a rutter. I used to think that they knew their history was being shown in this pose, and i guess that would be true if rutters exist as it would tell other major history points like whether the society ever had a catastrophe, arms thrown back signifies this. Usually volcano related.

[Image: Bodleian_Libraries%2C_Portolan_codex_Tyr...an_Sea.jpg][Image: Voynich-Manuscript-people-in-pool.jpg]
[Image: tyrrhsea.gif]

Anyway i can see better now how portolans came to be, they joined up bits and pieces and kept updating with new technology like compasses, and with these super rutters people could go farther and write better longer ones for the next one to follow. It was crowd funded, in a way.
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Messages In This Thread
Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 02-03-2019, 05:45 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 02-03-2019, 05:49 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 02-03-2019, 06:40 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by -JKP- - 03-03-2019, 10:03 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 03-03-2019, 05:22 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Koen G - 03-03-2019, 10:30 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 03-03-2019, 11:28 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 04-03-2019, 01:30 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by -JKP- - 04-03-2019, 02:24 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 04-03-2019, 03:37 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by -JKP- - 04-03-2019, 07:21 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by -JKP- - 04-03-2019, 02:38 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by VViews - 04-03-2019, 02:28 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by VViews - 04-03-2019, 02:54 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 04-03-2019, 09:46 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by -JKP- - 04-03-2019, 03:35 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 04-03-2019, 09:40 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by davidjackson - 04-03-2019, 10:09 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 04-03-2019, 10:57 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by VViews - 05-03-2019, 12:02 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 05-03-2019, 12:17 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 05-03-2019, 12:25 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 05-03-2019, 07:10 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 06-03-2019, 05:18 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 07-03-2019, 06:11 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by -JKP- - 07-03-2019, 07:27 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 07-03-2019, 08:19 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by -JKP- - 07-03-2019, 08:35 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 07-03-2019, 08:52 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 08-03-2019, 06:54 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 09-03-2019, 06:51 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 20-03-2019, 04:17 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 29-03-2019, 06:57 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 12-04-2019, 10:27 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 15-01-2021, 03:39 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 05-01-2025, 04:34 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 19-04-2021, 05:49 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 12-07-2021, 12:38 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Barbrey - 05-01-2025, 07:48 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 05-01-2025, 08:39 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 05-01-2025, 11:17 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 23-02-2025, 09:23 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 03-03-2025, 07:27 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by R. Sale - 03-03-2025, 11:27 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 04-03-2025, 05:00 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by R. Sale - 04-03-2025, 10:29 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 05-03-2025, 06:44 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Barbrey - 05-03-2025, 10:48 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 06-03-2025, 05:57 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 22-03-2026, 07:24 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Jimmy123 - 04-06-2026, 10:14 AM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 05-06-2026, 05:38 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Jimmy123 - 05-06-2026, 01:48 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 06-06-2026, 04:47 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 20-06-2026, 08:45 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Jorge_Stolfi - 21-06-2026, 11:46 PM
RE: Portolan Map Possibilities - by Linda - 08-08-2026, 06:49 PM

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