Second cloud band in VMs rosettes

[Linda]

Can't say whether this is news to anyone else, but there is a second cloud band in the VMs rosettes. The original one is in the Central Rosette, just outside the circular band of text. The one more recently added to my investigations is found in the center rosette on the right hand side. Both examples were brought to the current discussion by D. Hoffmann.

Not news but definitely interesting.

Cloud bands are relevant to VMs investigation because of the cosmic comparison of Oresme's illustration (BNF Fr. 565 fol. 23) with VMs f68v, as proposed by E. Velinska.

If this comparison is sufficiently strong to show that there was an actual, structural connection between these two cosmic representations that exists despite their visual differences, because those visual differences were intentionally created, then there should be no problem connecting the cloud band of the central rosette with the VMs cosmos of f68v. Firstly. this is because the VMs clearly has other examples of cross-page connections and, secondly, because of the high degree of pattern similarity in the designs that compose both of these examples.

I agree with the cross page connections and even cross quire connections. 

I find the cloud bands to mean different things on the rosettes than in quire 13 or f68v. In the latter, i take it to mean the heavens, space, or the universe, perhaps the firmanent above the sky. 



Note the Oresme orb is earth, water, and civilization, or humanity, or intelligent life, perhaps. I think that is important, it could also be meant, although in my interpretation the TO map on the rosettes page does mean Europe and Asia and the Mediterranean, at least.


No cloud band but again earth water civilization.


This one is down to water and civilization, note the religious aspect that usually accompanied such depictions.


I remember reading something about the antique greek chair tying to the past as well. 

In quire 13 i take them to mean actual clouds, as in water vapour in the air, which rains down upon the mountains. Still in the context of from the heavens.



In the rosettes i see them as an ephemeral indication of an idea, which is related to the combined religions of the world. Just as wolkenbands were often used to shoold aloft sacred icons, Jerusalem was often put at the middle of maps, but in this Jerusalem i see bits of Cairo, Baghdad, Constantinople, Rome, and probably various other places, and foundations come from the four corners (ok middles) of the earth. The second cloud band is i think a removal by one step of polytheistic religious history, due to the incongruity with the more recent monotheistic societies, but while still including it as historical background. Hecateus with his histories and tour of the world was attempting to mine the truth from the Greek stories, which he found were not often to be believed, combine that idea with those of Renaissance Neoplatonism and Humanism, and you can see how it all sort of rolls together into that central rosette. All the different Christian stances, various other religions. I also see ideas of water and volcanism, of earth water wind and fire, mixed in as well, which ties back to the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. examples.


This one has nothing to do with clouds or space.

I think it is to show that above all these differences, we are all still connected by the histories and evolutions of these and other ideas. It also points to wanting to show how things actually are, rather than being constrained by tradition to show it a certain way, which kept many world maps looking similar and barely representative until that time. I think it is showing a new way of thinking, a move toward science and knowledge, like saying put that stuff in your metaphorical pocket (the cloud band) and we can all get along fine and get some stuff done.

It might also have been related to the impending or recent takeover of Constantinople by the Ottoman Empire.

The Oresme cloud band is an excellent example of the scallop-shell patterned cloud band. Technically, it is built on an exaggerated nebuly line where the bulbous extremities have been depicted in a series of small arches, to give the characteristic scallop-shell shape. These running arches are similar to an engrailed line in heraldry.


The cloud band in the VMs Central Rosette is quite similar, with the difference that the engrailed characteristic runs throughout the entire nebuly line pattern, rather than only across the tops of the bulbs. This requires the engrailed line to be flipped when crossing the mid-line.

The cloud band in the VMs Right Center Rosette is even more elaborate. Like the Central Rosette, the engrailed line continues throughout. The interesting feature that I noted was that each bulb in this example contains a second line segment that follows the engrailed pattern. So I suggest that this pattern might be called 'double-topped'.

This double-topped construction has a hint of something familiar, but I can't pin it down. Unfortunately, many of the illustrations posted to the old 'wolkenband' thread seem to have gone to URLs

Does anyone have an illustration that shows a double-topped cloud band?

Not sure that this one qualifies, but this one has a link with astrology, including caput draconis

Not only does the second cloud band make it a pair of cloud bands side by side, but the Central Rosette contains a pair of Stolfi's markers. Both of which help advance the pairing paradigm.
[The pairing paradigm holds that, in some areas of the VMs research, the material that is relevant to finding the proper course of investigation will be found in pairs.]

I agree with the pairing paradijm, i see links with this and quire 13, quire 13 and the zodiac ages, etc.