Unexpected languages
#58
(02-10-2018, 12:34 PM)MarcoP wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think that You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about Voynichese prefixes being problematic when compared with Chinese are also relevant to this subject: it could very well be that there are other cases (not at line boundary) where exact reduplication is transformed into quasi-reduplication by the alteration of one of the two words in the pair.
Is pseudo-reduplication something that happens in Chinese? I.e. is it possible that instead of the exact repetition of a word (X becoming XX) one of the two occurrences is modified in the process (for instance resulting in something like pXX, XpX, XXp)?

I’m not sure whether we could compare Chinese words with reduplication or quasi-reduplication to Voynichese words, because Chinese is written hanzi-by-hanzi, or syllable-by-syllable. But, yes, words with structures like ABB, AAB or AABB do exist. Search “叠词” for examples.

Before introducing them, I’d like to first introduce a grammar in Chinese: verb reduplication.

In Modern Standard Chinese, verb reduplication is used when

  1. To try to do something: 走走看看吧。“Let’s try this way and see what will happen.” ← 走 “to go, to walk” 看 “to see”
  2. To do something for a short while: 我就跑跑步,没干别的 “I ran for a while, but I didn’t do anything else.” ← 跑 “to run”
  3. To list some actions together: 上学就是抽抽烟、喝喝酒、打打架、泡泡妞 “To go to school, is to smoke, to drink, to fight, and to flirt with girls.” ← 抽 “to smoke, to pick, to beat with a long and thin object” 喝 “to drink” 打 “to fight, to hit, to call”, 泡 “to flirt”
  4. Imperative. 行行好,帮帮我们吧。“Please be kind. Help us.” ← 行 “to do”, 帮 “to help, to save”
  5. To turn verb into adverb. 偷偷 “secretly” ← 偷 “to steal”
  6. Other usages I do not know how to describe. 看看,我早说了吧。“See? I told you before!” ← 看 “to see”
As you could see, some of these reduplications are in AAB or AABB pattern.

Sometimes, the B part of AAB is a noun, and is used to make the verb of the A part more clear, when the verb has multiple meanings. Examples in Rule 2 and 3 probably fall into this category.

Sometimes, the B part of AAB is a noun, but is fixed with the verb. 好 in Rule 4 means “good”, while 行 means “to do”, so “行行好” literally means to do something good, and is translated into “be kind”. We usually do not use 坏 “bad” or other words together with 行 “to do”, so “行行好” is almost a fixed phrase and cannot be split.

The example in Rule 1 is not considered to be a word of AABB pattern, but two reduplication words, so you see “and” in translation.


Let’s go back to your question.


For AAB phrases, see rules above if A is verb, else:
  • If both A and B are adjecents / adverbs, it simply emphasizes the adjacent / adverb: 晶晶亮 “blinging” ← 晶 “clear, crystal” 亮 “bright”
  • If A is adjacent / adverb but B is noun, it is probably a phrase for a common thing: 毛毛雨 “drizzling” ← 毛 “hair, fur” 雨 “rain”
  • If A is adjacent / adverb but B is verb, the final result is usually still an adjacent or adverb: 团团转 “anxious, anxiously” ← 团 “circle, in a circle” 转 “to walk around, to turn around”
  • If A is onomatopoeia, and B is verb, the final result is usually still a verb: 哇哇叫 “crying loudly” ← 哇哇 “onomatopoeia for crying” 叫 “to cry”
  • If A is onomatopoeia, and B is noun, the final result is usually still a noun: 啦啦队 “cheergirls” ← 啦啦 “onomatopoeia for cheering” 队 “team, group” / 碰碰车 “bumper cars” ← 碰碰 “onomatopoeia for bumping” 车 “car”
For ABB phrases:
  • If both A and B are adjecents / adverbs, it simply emphasizes the adjacent / adverb: 亮盈盈 “very bright” ← 亮 “bright” 盈 “full”
  • If A is adjacent / adverb, but B is onomatopoeia, it usually emphasizes the adjacent / adverb: 黑乎乎 “very dark” ← 黑 “dark” 乎乎 “onomatopoeia for oppressive things” / 黏乎乎 “very sticky” ← 黏 “sticky” / 胖乎乎 “chubby” ← 胖 “fat”
  • If A is verb, but B is onomatopoeia, it usually emphasizes the way the verb is committed: 笑哈哈 “a clear, loud laughter, to laugh clearly and loudly” ← 笑 “laughter, to laugh” 哈哈 “haha”
  • If A is 一 “one” and B is noun classifier, it means B-by-B, each B, every B, etc. 一个个 “everyone” ← 个 “general noun classifier for basically everything”
For ABA phrases:
  • Sometimes, we can insert 一 “one” in AA and it becomes ABA. Final meanings remain unchanged. This usage applies from Rule 1 to Rule 4.
  • Watch out for pseudo-ABA phrases! 三月三 “March the third” / 五成五 “55 percent (literally 5.5 per ten)” / 七千七 “seven thousand and seven hundred” / 九点九 “9.9”
For ABAB phrases:
  • It is usually formed from double two-syllable verbs. See verb reduplication Rule 1 to 4 at the beginning of this post.
For AABB phrases:
  • If AB is a verb, it usually forms a adjacent / adverb. See Rule 5 of verb reduplication: 吞吞吐吐 “hesitate in speaking” ← 吞吐 “take in and send out in large quantities” (I know this is counter-intuitive, but it is the fact)
  • If AB is an adjacent / adverb, the final result is probably an emphasized version of the adjacent / adverb: 干干净净 “very clean” ← 干净 “clean”  / 长长久久 “forever” ← 长久 “for long”
If you find anything that does not fall into any category above, please do not hesitate to ask me.
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Messages In This Thread
Unexpected languages - by Diane - 18-03-2016, 08:43 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by R. Sale - 20-03-2016, 07:31 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Diane - 20-03-2016, 08:17 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by R. Sale - 21-03-2016, 10:51 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by VViews - 27-05-2016, 10:43 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 27-05-2016, 12:09 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by VViews - 27-05-2016, 12:44 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Anton - 27-05-2016, 01:41 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 27-05-2016, 02:25 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by VViews - 27-05-2016, 02:41 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 27-05-2016, 02:51 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by VViews - 27-05-2016, 03:31 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 27-05-2016, 03:42 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by VViews - 27-05-2016, 04:16 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 27-05-2016, 04:50 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by VViews - 27-05-2016, 05:08 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 27-05-2016, 05:16 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 28-09-2018, 11:07 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by VViews - 27-05-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 27-05-2016, 05:56 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 27-05-2016, 06:32 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 27-05-2016, 06:35 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 27-05-2016, 06:52 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 27-05-2016, 06:59 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 27-05-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by VViews - 28-05-2016, 05:03 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by MarcoP - 28-05-2016, 07:17 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 28-05-2016, 08:18 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by MarcoP - 28-05-2016, 10:17 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 28-05-2016, 11:21 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 28-05-2016, 09:35 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 28-05-2016, 09:53 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 28-05-2016, 10:25 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by MarcoP - 28-05-2016, 11:27 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 29-05-2016, 06:29 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Davidsch - 31-05-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Botis - 28-08-2016, 11:02 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Davidsch - 28-08-2016, 11:21 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Botis - 30-08-2016, 05:28 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by matthewK - 30-08-2016, 07:19 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Diane - 03-09-2016, 10:30 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 03-09-2016, 06:17 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by Koen G - 28-09-2018, 11:32 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 01-10-2018, 04:22 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by DONJCH - 01-10-2018, 06:43 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 28-09-2018, 11:49 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 01-10-2018, 08:50 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 01-10-2018, 07:27 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by DONJCH - 01-10-2018, 08:06 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by MarcoP - 01-10-2018, 07:57 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by DONJCH - 01-10-2018, 08:15 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 01-10-2018, 09:15 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 01-10-2018, 11:15 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 02-10-2018, 11:10 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by MarcoP - 02-10-2018, 12:34 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 03-10-2018, 04:19 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 03-10-2018, 07:55 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 03-10-2018, 05:31 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by MarcoP - 04-10-2018, 09:25 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 04-10-2018, 09:56 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by MarcoP - 04-10-2018, 08:09 PM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 05-10-2018, 06:31 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 05-10-2018, 06:44 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 04-10-2018, 11:22 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ChenZheChina - 05-10-2018, 05:24 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by -JKP- - 05-10-2018, 05:29 AM
RE: Unexpected languages - by ReneZ - 05-10-2018, 06:37 AM

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