[Talk] New Information on the early history of Beinecke 408?

[Helmut Winkler]

There is a lecure in December in the Staatsbibliothek zu Berlin

Kaiser Rudolf II. und das „väßl mitt allerlai selzamen büchern“. Neue Erkenntnisse zur älteren Besitzgeschichte des Voynich-Manuskriptes

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Seems someone found sone documents about the early history of the ms.

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[Koen G]

It looks very interesting! Though the impression I get is that the speaker will present a picture of Rudolph's other acquisitions and argue that the VM would not have been out of place among them.


Translated in browser: 

The lecture examines the book acquisition policy of the Roman-German Emperor Rudolf II (1552–1612), who is considered the first known owner of the Voynich manuscript. Previously unknown archive sources are presented for the first time, making it possible to tell a plausible story of the origin of the mysterious volume. Because the ruler, who was enthusiastic about rare, valuable and, above all, alchemical treasures, grabbed it in 1598/99 when he had the opportunity to acquire a very special book.

[Mark Knowles]

making it possible to tell a plausible story of the origin of the mysterious volume.

I don't know if it is the translation, but understanding Rudolf II's said ownership of the Voynich manuscript isn't really dealing with the "origin" of the manuscript, unless one doubts the accuracy of the carbon dating as more than an interval of 150 years separates the origin from Rudolf II.

[Koen G]

If one document says something like "Rudolf bought a manuscript with undecipherable writing from a Venetian merchant", one could arguably claim that more has been learned about the origin.

(Although now we are speculating about how someone else will speculate, so I think it's best to wait and see )

[Anton]

I remember Rene announcing some paper coming out (to which he was a co-author or an advisor/reviewer, I don't remember exactly) dedicated to certain new discoveries in the field of the VMS provenance, that was a couple of years ago. Back then, something prevented that paper from being presented or published, maybe this is the same research?

EDIT: upon seeing the name of Stefan Guzy I'm now sure that it's the same research indeed. That's certainly of much interest, as far as I can see.

[Mark Knowles]

If one document says something like "Rudolf bought a manuscript with undecipherable writing from a Venetian merchant", one could arguably claim that more has been learned about the origin.

Without wishing to get bogged down in semantics, I would say that if one document says something like "Rudolf bought a manuscript with undecipherable writing from a Venetian merchant, who said that it had been written by his great great grandfather" then we would have a clear link to the origin of the manuscript, however otherwise we may be a bit closer to the origin, but we are still quite a long way off. Although, any step closer is much better than none.

[pfeaster]

making it possible to tell a plausible story of the origin of the mysterious volume.

I don't know if it is the translation, but understanding Rudolf II's said ownership of the Voynich manuscript isn't really dealing with the "origin" of the manuscript, unless one doubts the accuracy of the carbon dating as more than an interval of 150 years separates the origin from Rudolf II.

The original German refers to "eine plausible Herkunftsgeschichte des mysteriösen Bandes."  The part that was translated as "origin" is Herkunft in the compound Herkunftsgeschichte.  "Origin" is probably the most common English translation of Herkunft, but it can also mean "provenance."  So an alternative translation would be "a plausible story [or history] of the provenance of the mysterious volume."  The use of the word Besitzgeschichte ("ownership history") in the title and elsewhere reinforces my suspicion that this is what's meant.

[ReneZ]

To my best knowledge, this lecture will be in German.

[Anton]

Anyone plans to visit? I'll ask Gert, maybe he will be able to attend.

[Anton]

Moved the thread to News to increase visibility.