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+--- Thread: Quire9-10 pattern (/thread-3813.html)
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - Scarecrow - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 09:37 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hello everyone!
My first question, why choose the seven planets? Maybe it is the Phililaus system?
Maybe because there were seven planets visible with the naked eye, and were thus known to ancient astrologers, the Moon, Mercury, Venus, The Sun, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn.
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - Anton - 07-06-2022
Yes, indeed, there were Sun, Moon, and five planets in the ptolemaic system, which amounts to 2+5 = seven
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - Ruby Novacna - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 10:10 AM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.there were seven planets visible with the naked eyeAre you talking about the planets in the sky or the folios of the manuscript?
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - Ruby Novacna - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 11:08 AM)Anton Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.indeed, there were Sun, Moon, and five planets in the ptolemaic systemLet me rephrase: is there any guarantee that this is Ptolemy's system?
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - Koen G - 07-06-2022
I'm not sure if any of the central faces can be argued to represent a moon (some of the non-central faces clearly do). I do agree with Anton's sentiment that the majority of them appear to represent suns.
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - Scarecrow - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 12:45 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-06-2022, 10:10 AM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.there were seven planets visible with the naked eyeAre you talking about the planets in the sky or the folios of the manuscript?
Planets, or objects, in the sky, as Sun or Moon are not planets.
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - nablator - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 01:11 PM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Sun or Moon are not planets.But they used to be. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - Scarecrow - 07-06-2022
(07-06-2022, 01:44 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(07-06-2022, 01:11 PM)Scarecrow Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Sun or Moon are not planets.But they used to be. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Right. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Quire9-10 pattern - RobGea - 07-06-2022
So if the 5 central roundels with faces in Q9+10 are the Sun and the Moon. :: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Moons = f67r1, f68r3
Suns =f67v1, f68v1, f70r2
Then the argument would be that each 'face' folio represents some attribute of the Sun or Moon.
Though the 3 'suns' faces are very, very different from each other, this seems a thin but plausible argument.
However, Q9+10 , appear to be a standard-ish Cosmology , they usually contain a zodiac which we have in the last 2 folios,
and the 5 classical planets ( and also the Sun, Moon, Earth and a few other things )
I have no big arguments for this, just parsimony, amongst these folios we would expect the 5 classical planets to make an appearance
and there are 5 folios with a face in the centre.
This may well be incorrect, it just fits nice
Faces as planets example circa 1150AD: Wikipedia : Planet symbols
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RE: Quire9-10 pattern - MarcoP - 07-06-2022
I already mentioned this in the past, but a good parallel for the idea of a diagram for each one of the seven planets is a Greek manuscript at the Marciana Library in Venice, a few pages of which are visible on Getty Images.
These two pages apparently represent the planetary ruler for the 24 hours in the day of the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Sunday) and You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (Wednesday). The "Hermes" page is erronously assigned to the Moon on the Getty site, but the planets are identifiable by the red symbol at the top-left of each page and the immediately following Greek word.
It's a pity that it's so difficult to find more information about this source....