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+--- Thread: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS (/thread-1745.html)
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 09-11-2024
(09-11-2024, 07:51 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Thank you @Nablator for the introduction of Guy de Montanor ( Guido di Montanor )
Quote:Guido de Montanor, in his Scala Philosophorum, which is a real stair of transmutations instead of the classic seven operations stairs, uses a more ancient list.
In his Bibliotheca Chemica, Ferguson is a little source of info on this author: “Guido de Montanor, or Montano, or Guido Magnus de Monte, but not Guido de Monte was a Frenchmen quoted by Ripley and quoting in his turn Roger Bacon. Hence he can be attributed to a period between those”.
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Great resource. Did you read it? Translation in a bit difficult, but this might actually be helpful as pertains to VMs.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - bi3mw - 09-11-2024
(09-11-2024, 08:26 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Great resource. Did you read it?
I read the English translations in the article. I trust that these translations are correct.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - R. Sale - 09-11-2024
i was doing OK, till I got to "tingentem". Then there seems to be a problem: 'dying' versus 'dyeing'. And then the correction seems rather awkward. Who's doing what to whom?
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - nablator - 09-11-2024
(09-11-2024, 09:31 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.i was doing OK, till I got to "tingentem". Then there seems to be a problem: 'dying' versus 'dyeing'. And then the correction seems rather awkward. Who's doing what to whom?
Also "fixio" is not "I fix", it would be "figo". So "fixio in terram spiritualem & tingentem" should be "fixation in a spiritual and dyeing earth".
Following sentence : "when you wash ... ": "abueris" (doesn't exist) could have been "ablueris" (wash) but it's "habueris" (have) in the 1550, 1610 and 1702 editions. Also checked in the oldest (15th c.) ms., so I'm pretty sure it is "habueris".
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - R. Sale - 10-11-2024
Yes, but...
Dying refers to death. Dyeing refers to the use of dye to color something.
So, what is a ' spiritual and dyeing earth'? How does that work?
The verb seems to be: tingo, tingere, tinxi, tinctum
Meaning to dip, soak, dye or color. Figuratively meaning to imbue.
Given that alchemy is all hocus-pocus, 'imbuing' might read better, but what does that mean?
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 10-11-2024
(10-11-2024, 03:36 AM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yes, but...
Dying refers to death. Dyeing refers to the use of dye to color something.
So, what is a ' spiritual and dyeing earth'? How does that work?
The verb seems to be: tingo, tingere, tinxi, tinctum
Meaning to dip, soak, dye or color. Figuratively meaning to imbue.
Given that alchemy is all hocus-pocus, 'imbuing' might read better, but what does that mean?
Alchemy started with dyeing so it might mean just that. No idea what the phrase would mean, sounds like more code. It’s never nonsense, though, just code. 50% of it is in code, even when the writer says they’ll explain it all in simple terms! Never believe them!
Later it talks about “fixing” this substance: as spiritual could mean volatile or “lively”, and dyeing would mean colour-changing, I’d guess the meaning might be the substance would be unable to change either colour or nature after fixation. But I’m just guessing.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Ruby Novacna - 10-11-2024
I tried to reread this thread from the beginning, it's already 7 years old!
What interests me most, if there are any suggestions for the text.
For the botanical part of the manuscript, several researchers have tried to explain the unique or rare words on the pages like the names of plants.
Are there any words that we could link to the theme of alchemy?
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 10-11-2024
Each substance or process in alchemy could be known by a number of names, which makes things difficult, but I imagine the word “Mercurius” would be a good bet, because it is used for so many things physical, philosophical and metaphorical.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Ruby Novacna - 10-11-2024
(10-11-2024, 03:43 PM)Barbrey Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Each substance or process in alchemy could be known by a number of names, which makes things difficult, but I imagine the word “Mercurius” would be a good bet, because it is used for so many things physical, philosophical and metaphorical.
Thank you, I thought more about the "words" in our manuscript that could be related to alchemical operations.
RE: Alchemical Symbolism in the VMS - Barbrey - 10-11-2024
Putrefaction, ablutio (washing), separation, conjunction, coagulation, solution, distillation are some of the steps I would include vis a vis my interpretations, but chances are they were called something more metaphorical by the writer.