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+--- Thread: Fun with Ligatures and Brevigraphs (/thread-5009.html)
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RE: Fun with Ligatures and Brevigraphs - nablator - 31-10-2025
(31-10-2025, 04:47 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.that was a joke...
Okay then, but you know Poe's law, it's impossible to tell if you believe it or not. Many solvers are 100% certain that their first attempt at a solution is correct.
RE: Fun with Ligatures and Brevigraphs - Ruby Novacna - 31-10-2025
(31-10-2025, 06:35 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Why so negative?
I'm probably like Cappelli:
I like short speeches.
RE: Fun with Ligatures and Brevigraphs - JoJo_Jost - 01-11-2025
To show why I am so intensely interested in ligatures and brevigraphs, I have translated an original sentence from a recipe in the Voynich manuscript language:
t dytiy cth aiin deey oro tsh
With the help of ligatures and brevigraphs, it is relatively easy (within limits, see below) to write in the Voynich alphabet.
Please note: This is not a solution!!! It is far too speculative—it is a direction, a weak possibility so far, nothing more. (One has to be careful here.
)Here is an example of how to translate a text into Voynichese.
A typical text from an original medieval recipe book:
For toothache: Boil comfrey root in milk; hold the broth in your mouth—it relieves the pain.
For groin pain: Comfrey root tied to the thigh immediately relieves excessive pain.
Comfrey, tied to the feet or applied as a compress, relieves pain.
And so it goes, page by page!
Thesis:
Thesis:
I assume that the VM is a transcript, a manuscript by a “doctor” who wrote his prescription book in extensive shorthand. He knew that it was "comfrey", after all, he drew the plant, so he didn't need the term. He also wanted it to be very short, so the text is greatly abbreviated, containing only the information he needed for himself:
Shorthand:
Toothache boil milk, decoction hold in mouth
Pain root tied helps
Pain chest/lungs drink squeezed juice apply
U see he didn't need any more information for himself!
In Latin:
dolorem dentium coque in lacte decoctum in ore tene.
Dolor radix ligata iuvat.
pectoris ac pulmonum dolores succus expressus bibe superpone.
Let's take the first sentence:
dolorem dentium coque in lacte decoctum in ore tene.
dolorum is a word that occurs 1000 times in a recipe, so he will have shortened it to one character, let's say here just as an example (!) a t / but t also remains t.
cocque is also extremely common, let's say a cth, the c-c could represent a pot (pictogram
)lacte = ain (I suspect that aiin could be water and ain then lacte. See other thread)
Here is the sentence in Voynian and the description of how it was made:
t dytiy cth aiin deey oro tsh
The individual words
t = dolor
dentium:
den = dy ligature den shortened, around e dy (see below)
tium= tiy
(many other variants are also possible for tium)
= dytiy
coque = cth
in = is swallowed (because it is logical)
lacte = aiin
decotum = dee+y (see image below)
in = is swallowed
ore = oro
tene = t ene = ee (ch) with a shortening stroke above it... so sh
Together
t dytiy cth aiin deey oro tsh
Important:
1. No, God knows I can't translate to voynich! Although some of it would be possible, but a lot of it wouldn't!
2. This type of notation with brevigraps and ligatures would cause considerable difficulties for computer programs, and the result would be, among other things, very low entropy.
3. So, even though I was able to do this once, it's very time-consuming... and it's not (!!!) real Voynichese yet.
4. I am far from knowing all the rules, I am working on which words are which characters, how many variants there are, I think there are three to five variations for a word/glyph in some cases. The problem is not encrypting, but decrypting! And thats only Herbal....
There are too many possibilities. And as I have often said, some small but important details were probably lost during copying, which makes things extremely difficult. If you assign words to individual glyphs, then in the astrology section, these would have to be completely different words. And then........ many other problems remain
But, it could be a way....
RE: Fun with Ligatures and Brevigraphs - JoJo_Jost - 01-11-2025
Sorry. wrong button pressed: I love the quick translation of the letters into Voynichese, but you shouldn't press "Post reply" then....
RE: Fun with Ligatures and Brevigraphs - JoJo_Jost - 01-11-2025
What I don't understand, or am I making a mistake in my thinking:
If I can translate large parts of a recipe book in shorthand back using the Voynich alphabet, why should Voynich be a hoax?
Even if the result is not really Voynich in its original version because I use different ligatures and brevigraphs? But it is the same game...
At least you can see that the Voynich alphabet can work as it is. Here's a quick and dirty version of the third line (because it's the longest) of the recipe...
pectoris ac pulmonum dolores succus expressus bibe superpone.
ps tmac plinoy tschy empr chus dide srp oye
(and now i undestand why the spaces are not the end of a word)
pec = ps(s.b)
t=t
ris= m (s.b.) (rm
pstm
ac = ac
pl= pl' (pul)
mon = ino
y= um
= plinoy
Dolores = t
S = s
u= ignored
ch=cc
us= y
= schy
ex = em (s.b.)
pr= pR
essus = ccy
=empRchus
bibe = d = b also dide
Sr = super
pone = poye
= srpoye
And if I wrote it myself, I can recognize it easily.
RE: Fun with Ligatures and Brevigraphs - nablator - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 04:17 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But it is the same game...
Prove it. There is a little more difficulty to the "game" than using a specific alphabet.
RE: Fun with Ligatures and Brevigraphs - JoJo_Jost - 01-11-2025
(01-11-2025, 06:20 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Prove it. There is a little more difficulty to the "game" than using a specific alphabet.
A little more?
Rather a "little more" years... 
we 'll see....