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+--- Thread: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) (/thread-4480.html)
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - oshfdk - 06-02-2025
(06-02-2025, 05:46 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.For now I will tell you only that I have other translations from the rest of the text, (herbs, cosmology) where the "8" symbol is read "b" or "v". If I decide to publish all maybe will be more persuading.
I must admit that there are certain places especially in cosmology that "8" is written with a small tail behind- then it could be interpreted as "d".
Overall, I think you are right in suggesting that something more persuasive could help.
Could you provide any reference for word "poshlibei"? Given that you admit that the end of the document is in German and there is a known source for German word "poxleber", without any reference for actual word "poshlibei" your interpretation seems particularly vulnerable here.
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 06-02-2025
Concerning the letter "x"
It was found in the written document of
George d'Esclavonie - Juraj Slovinac, Croatian Glagolitic priest and professor at Sorbon
At certain page he cites all of the Episcops of Croatia (14Century). There is the questionable "x" sign. And it is to be read as "sh" or "ch".
Refer the attachment.
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 06-02-2025
(06-02-2025, 06:12 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.O yes, you do not know the cipher-man yet! He is very tricky.(06-02-2025, 05:46 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Another proof from VM- if you look carefully on the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. - the alphabet , where "a" begins, then is the second row with VM symbols (almost deleted), then there is a third row, with the real correspondence- against "8" symbol in the third row stays "v".
I think there is a very clear Latin b in the third row in the MSI images. Given the whole sequence goes a ? c d e, and the letter looks like "b", I find it hard to imagine this could be "v".
He has coded "b" and "v" in the same symbol of "8"if you look carefully.
But this is one of easier ciphering. The most awful ciphered symbol is "п". It could be a lot of characters...
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - oshfdk - 06-02-2025
(06-02-2025, 06:37 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.At certain page he cites all of the Episcops of Croatia (14Century). There is the questionable "x" sign. And it is to be read as "sh" or "ch".
Refer the attachment.
So, is it Krshki or Krčki / Krchki? I assume in the context of Glagolitic priests they could be talking about Krk.
Just yesterday I looked up the history of the Glagolitic script and Krk was mentioned in the Wikipedia as one of the places where the script was in use for a long time after its usage stopped almost everywhere else.
If x is ch and not sh, show does this affect your interpretation?
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - oshfdk - 06-02-2025
(06-02-2025, 06:46 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.O yes, you do not know the cipher-man yet! He is very tricky.
He has coded "b" and "v" in the same symbol of "8"if you look carefully.
But this is one of easier ciphering. The most awful ciphered symbol is "п". It could be a lot of characters...
But why be tricky if all the trickery is just replacing some characters? It's not really hiding anything. If your reading is correct and really corresponds to some dialect of Moravian, just replacing a few characters with weird counterparts won't make it unreadable for someone who knows the language.
1 m3@n m05t p30pl3 c@n r3@d 1n th31r n@t1v3 l@ngu@g3 3v3n wh3n s0m3 l3tt3r5 @r3 r3pl@c3d w1th w31rd b@r3ly r3c0gn1z@bl3 sh@p35
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 07-02-2025
(06-02-2025, 08:56 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But why be tricky if all the trickery is just replacing some characters? It's not really hiding anything. If your reading is correct and really corresponds to some dialect of Moravian, just replacing a few characters with weird counterparts won't make it unreadable for someone who knows the language.
1 m3@n m05t p30pl3 c@n r3@d 1n th31r n@t1v3 l@ngu@g3 3v3n wh3n s0m3 l3tt3r5 @r3 r3pl@c3d w1th w31rd b@r3ly r3c0gn1z@bl3 sh@p35
It is so difficult, that one needs to know the text in order to interpret it correctly.
Let me explain with a simple example, which is hypothetical:
"aha" - may be read as "oha", "aho" aca, acha, ocha, acho, ano etc.
Then one goes to the next word and it has "8" it could be v, or b and "a" which may be a or o, or even e. So again a combination of words.
Then you combine the two words and you find that not only one combination has a reason , but two. And both are equally possible.
Even I want to start a thread about double language in middle ages scripts and does one has experience with.
Then you are trapped in the next word. You should consider also that it is 14-th century. You cannot think it as if today.
Also the herbs from which I translated something, talk from first name, singular about themselves...... They speak with their own terminology, which is very near the shepherds.
Herb's language is scurrilous. The first time I gave up translating is when I understood that one of them describes the female organ as - "snake's hole"...
There is not Latin terminology, as the script seems to be created before the times when the romans had conquered the world and implemented their rules of writings herbals.
As a conclusion I have something translated, which is valuable, but I am far from understanding everything. That is why I am here - searching for a person, who knows more.
Note also, that I am not with Czech origin, so I am not like being German and insisting that that script is in German, or being Italian and writing thousands of translations as if the script is Italian. Maybe I am the only one who is not motivated by patriotism, but by pure truth revealing.
Enjoy!
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - Aga Tentakulus - 07-02-2025
How is that supposed to work?
On the one hand, you write in your essay.
"After long and deep investigations I found out that this is an exotic tropical plant, called today by south- Americans -“annatto” (Bixa orellana) in Latin."
According to Wiki, it only occurs in South America.
Then you write ...
You should consider also that it is 14-th century. You cannot think it as if today.
If you think of the C-14 test, then one excludes the other.
How do you explain that?
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - Ruby Novacna - 07-02-2025
(07-02-2025, 10:49 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You should consider also that it is 14-th century. ...
If you think of the C-14 test, then one excludes the other.
How do you explain that?
America was already discovered at the end of the 15th century and the proposed plant arrived in Europe when, not before the 16th century?
Choosing an American plant for the first attempt at translation presents several pitfalls, in my opinion.
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 07-02-2025
(07-02-2025, 10:49 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How is that supposed to work?How do you explain the other exotic plants in the script? Do you have explanation?
On the one hand, you write in your essay.
"After long and deep investigations I found out that this is an exotic tropical plant, called today by south- Americans -“annatto” (Bixa orellana) in Latin."
According to Wiki, it only occurs in South America.
Then you write ...
You should consider also that it is 14-th century. You cannot think it as if today.
If you think of the C-14 test, then one excludes the other.
How do you explain that?
And I am stating that this plant is found today only in south America, but then? Do You know then where was it found also?
Enjoy
RE: Foil116v -An Ancient Recipe (updated) - BessAgritianin - 07-02-2025
(07-02-2025, 11:46 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In this case we need to delete all other exotic plants in the script, because they are contradiction to C14 test?(07-02-2025, 10:49 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You should consider also that it is 14-th century. ...
If you think of the C-14 test, then one excludes the other.
How do you explain that?
America was already discovered at the end of the 15th century and the proposed plant arrived in Europe when, not before the 16th century?
Choosing an American plant for the first attempt at translation presents several pitfalls, in my opinion.
The explanation is to be found in the contents of the firs foil.
Br: Vessy