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+--- Thread: [Article] Solved again and again ... (/thread-2823.html)
RE: Solved again and again ... - Monica Yokubinas - 23-06-2019
(22-06-2019, 03:42 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I do think it's possible You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is a sundew, but there's a different drawing in the VMS that resembles Drosera even more, so I don't think Cheshire can make the claim that the identification of 53r is "beyond doubt".
Drosera intermedia has a distinct rosette of leaves at the base, they don't grow up the stem the way they are drawn in 53r, so either the illustrator has taken liberties or it's a different plant, possibly a hairy or thorny plant. The flowers are also quite different. They have five simple petals, not the numerous petals shown in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . Here are some alternate possibilities:
- Hieracium has long hairs on the leaves and lots of petals. Pilosella has quite hairy leaves, and the heads have branching flowers with lots of petals, and have a knob under the petals. Pilosella is included in many medieval herbals. Even Hypochoeris could be considered. It's known as horse's tongue or cat's ear because of the hairy leaves. Or some of the Senecios that have very hairy leaves and daisy-like flowers.
- Inula candida, and some of the other Inulas, have downy leaves that grow up the stem, branching flowers like daisies, and centers that look a bit like sunflowers.
- Asteriscus maritimus and Asteriscus aquaticus both have hairy leaves that grow up the stem, daisy-like flowers with lots of petals and centers that look a bit like sunflowers.
- Even some of the hairy species of Calendula (like C. stellata) would be a good match, or some of the hairier more daisy-like varieties of Erigeron.
These plants are arguably more similar to VMS You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. than Drosera intermedia (I'm not ruling out Drosera, but these other plants are similar in more ways than Drosera, especially the flowers and the way the leaves grow up the stem).
- Pallenis spinosa has hairy leaves that form a rosette and grow up the stem, flower heads that branch, the flowers have lots of petals and the centers look a bit like sunflowers. It's a Mediterranean plant. Since it's a somewhat spiny plant when it dries and goes to seed, it's possible the pointy leaves in the VMS drawing are mnemonic.
Clearly there are MANY alternate IDs for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in addition to Drosera intermedia. I didn't even list them all.
I notice he is now calling it an algorithmic method. I wonder if he "borrowed" that terminology from Patrick Lockerby.
What he demonstrated in his previous paper was not an algorithmic method. There was a lot of subjective interpretation.
Does anyone have any 'resource' he is giving for his translation. Out of curiosity, I translated this today, and it is very complex with missing ink. Especially since it deals with a very old proper name for God.?
RE: Solved again and again ... - voynichbombe - 02-08-2019
G. Cheshire posted an announcement for his paper on the Digital Medievalist mailing list on 8th of July. While it is an announcement list only, I felt the need to break the rules and reply with some of the common "considerations" regarding it. After all, the list is a very professional one. While I was not blamed for my reply, my civil critique has not been received well, and not only by the author.
RE: Solved again and again ... - ReneZ - 28-04-2020
People may be excited to learn that Gerard Cheshire is still publishing.
He is promising a series of articles about the plants in the MS, with translations of their descriptive texts.
I have seen one example from January 2020, where the plant in portfolio (yes
) 4, right, is identified as andromeda polifolia.I have to admit that I resisted the temptation to actually read it.
RE: Solved again and again ... - -JKP- - 28-04-2020
(28-04-2020, 07:02 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
...
I have seen one example from January 2020, where the plant in portfolio (yes
) 4, right, is identified as andromeda polifolia....
LOL!!!!!!!
Andromeda polifolia is a North American plant.
A "proto-Romance" manuscript with North American plants. Right.... uh huh.
RE: Solved again and again ... - Aga Tentakulus - 28-04-2020
I do not find the example of the andromeda polifolia so far-fetched. It may have been a mistake to access the first best of 4000 species.
(Ericaceae) are also on my list.
RE: Solved again and again ... - -JKP- - 28-04-2020
Ericaceae is on my list too, Aga, but Cheshire is trying to combine a "proto-Romance" theory (pre-Romance vulgar Latin that developed loooong before the medieval period) with North American plants.
RE: Solved again and again ... - Aga Tentakulus - 28-04-2020
hmmm, yeah, that's funny, though
RE: Solved again and again ... - Koen G - 28-04-2020
(28-04-2020, 07:02 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have seen one example from January 2020, where the plant in portfolio (yes
I actually read the plant's name as Andromeda portfolia.
Note that I told him about the portfolio issue even before his Romance Studies paper was published and he was sending around some similar nonsense to people who had been selected for reviewing it. I did send a long list of issues though, so he probably just ignored it.
RE: Solved again and again ... - bi3mw - 28-04-2020
In case anyone actually wants to read the description of Cheshire, here is the link:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
There are currently eight papers in the series for plant identification. For those who want to endure it:
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
RE: Solved again and again ... - Ruby Novacna - 28-04-2020
Thanks for the link, Rene, I read, interesting. But what I find more interesting than the identification of plants is the deterioration of relations between this author and the rest of the Voynich community. Koen says that the author sent his article to him, which proves that he closely followed the activities of the community. On the other hand, today, you will not find in his article any mention of his predecessors, to believe that he's the first and the only researcher. It's embarrassing, coming from an academic. So I wonder if your criticism policy too severe has not produced results contrary to expectations? Perhaps a little more pedagogy is needed in order to attract the volunteers and supervise them instead of repelling them and letting them flourish in plagiarism.
P.S. I have not read its translation carefully, but I do not see how it's worse than other "translations", it takes at all to make a world.