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+--- Thread: Voynich through Phonetic Irish (/thread-5032.html)
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 14-11-2025
(14-11-2025, 01:16 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(14-11-2025, 01:10 AM)rikforto Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Apologies, in what sense do both come up with ríd? Do you mean that "ríd" appears on the list of nearby lexical entries, because that is true of a lot of words on that list, because that's literally just a list of words nearby in the dictionary. And what does "ríd" have to do with anything, you previously came up with "ráig" for chor?
Sir, you were talking about typing in Teannglan: "ridhin"
(13-11-2025, 11:11 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I count 5 periods in the instructions alone... how does that compare to the average poem?(13-11-2025, 10:53 PM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You have shrunk down what I provided above. It is NOT just "says", "point" or "cloth". Each of those have MULTIPLE other meanings that are context dependent (included in all of their definitions). If I open up an IKEA manual would the most common words be the same as a poetic text or technical text? Much of this is instructional. And some words are combined: FROM is the most common word, it's the "a fada" at the end of a word.
Behold, the first IKEA manual I found on the internet and its most common words. Totally dominated by generics: OF, AND, REMOVE, ON, THEIR, TO, HELP, ITEMS. Even in this extremely unusual text. Where are these generic words in your translations above? Note that if I collated multiple IKEA manuals, the generic words would score even higher.
This is how I would be typing the other word (not ridhin) into Teannglan (without considering possibilities of C or CH, which already come up for suggestions)
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - rikforto - 14-11-2025
(14-11-2025, 01:35 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is how I would be typing the other word (not ridhin) into Teannglan (without considering possibilities of C or CH, which already come up for suggestions)
You're right, I did mean chedy. Though, I'm not sure where we end up because I have you giving rith before, not ri'd, and I'm still not completely sure where any of your readings are coming from exactly.
(14-11-2025, 01:25 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To what User OSHFDK wrote in regards to the trolling post:
"I can't agree. It is straightforward, yes, and it does simplify, but it's designed to highlight a point and it does a reasonably good job. Overall I see little difference between your solution and rikforto's mockup, other than yours is much more complex and evolved."
He wrote 90 minutes.. I don't think you have any idea how much time I've dedicated to this. I understand it can be incredibly upsetting for some that I got much further than they themselves or others did in a much much shorter time frame, but I didn't just start working on this. I also don't see this as a competition which it appears many of you do on this site..
To be clear, not a troll, I clearly labeled what that was and stand by my very serious point: The existence of a translation per se, far from being indicative of a valid solution, is an expected part of any proposed solution. The thing about it being extremely fast was mostly sending up a different solution---I believe you were linked to the thread where it came up, but at any rate she kept talking about how the speed of her translation implied that it must be valid. I believe I saw another solver who made that argument, though I'm having trouble remembering which one. At any rate, it's pretty common for solvers to give some variation of, "Look, I found suggestive meaning in the text, how do you explain that?" Well, by pointing out that doing so is fairly easy to get suggestive meaning from the text, especially if you are willing to lean a bit on some online tools like a translator or a dictionary.
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 14-11-2025
I also want to be clear in terms of process here:
If a person writes a text PHONETICALLY from their language onto pages. And then another person examines that page 100s of years later, who is acquainted with that language but it has now evolved** significantly, that person translating now has to bridge sound and spelling gaps. That person has to understand frequently occurring letters and sounds from both the script and modern, look up roots of words by spitting words. Look for patterns in BOTH languages in sound and in script, back and forth. Back and forth. Back and forth. Back and forth. Back and forth.
**evolved but was halted from evolving for several hundreds of years due to genoclde/colonization, language suppression
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 14-11-2025
Because the context of the fada has changed in my recent work, I've been going back to see where this fada/L exists in odd character order contexts. this is an edit to a translation from my Substack that could put visual and/or auditorial context to the extended meaning of the fada in my interpretation.
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 14-11-2025
Some other overall ideas I have currently with the text:
Some of the sentences I have are SVO as opposed to VSO, suggesting possible evidence of Italo-celtic theories. I briefly mention this in one of my TikToks and I'm writing and researching a bit more about it now.
I've wondered if pregnant women being a symbol of protection but also the idea of them being part of the initial process of determining safety of edible plants. (ie heightened sense of smell)
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - oshfdk - 14-11-2025
(14-11-2025, 12:46 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is what you get when searching the spelling:
Both come up with:
ríd, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~eanna). 1. Reed. 2. Stuff, quality. Tá ~ ar leith san éadach sin, that cloth is of particularly fine quality. 3. Inherent quality. Tá ~ ceoil ann, he is a born singer.
So, you select a (lexicographically) nearby word when there is nothing in the dictionary even with fuzzy matching ("No matches found" in both of the screenshots). I think this is the missing piece, now I understand the whole puzzle. I can even "replicate" with EVA transliteration and English (foreseeing your possible reaction: no, this is not rude by any definition of "rude" known to me):
fachys.ykal.ar.ataiin.Shol.Shory.cthres.y.kor.Sholdy
fachys => [fachis] => factors (lexicographically)
ykal => [ikal] => equal (equally?)
ar => are
ataiin => [atain] => attain (attained? to attain?)
Shol => [shol] => shawl
Shory => [shori] => surely
cthres => [kthris] => covers (lexicographically)
y => [i] => in
kor => [kor] => core
Sholdy => [sholdi] => shoulders
factors equally are attain shawl surely covers in core shoulders
"These circumstances are as easy to reach as to cover one's shoulders in a shawl."
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - nablator - 14-11-2025
(14-11-2025, 08:40 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.fachys.ykal.ar.ataiin.Shol.Shory.cthres.y.kor.Sholdy
Or, for those who don't know/like EVA: fachys ykal ar ataiin Shol Shory cThres y kor Sholdy
The 7th word looks more like cTores, an even better analog to "covers".
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Bluetoes101 - 14-11-2025
The attached file on post #163 would be the below in EVA.
po soj ton dy okolyd diy rcha schee
These occur 0,0,0,271,1,0,0,0 times in the manuscript.
"ton" is not part of any other word either, same for "diy".
I'm sure there's the odd exception, but in general you can't end words "a" or "ee".
"j" is so rare it would be like "z" in English (probably much rarer even, but a simple example), I'm not sure how much you would need to use this but just to note.
There are other issues, but with a short snippet "weirdness" can happen.
Overall, this is not very "Voynich-like" text and highlights quite well the issues with language theories so far.
We would expect something more like "poror otaiin dy okolyd dy orchal scheeg"
[EDIT] - I mixed up EVA "j" and "g" in my head above
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Doireannjane - 14-11-2025
(14-11-2025, 08:40 AM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.(14-11-2025, 12:46 AM)Doireannjane Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is what you get when searching the spelling:
Both come up with:
ríd, m. (gs. ~, pl. ~eanna). 1. Reed. 2. Stuff, quality. Tá ~ ar leith san éadach sin, that cloth is of particularly fine quality. 3. Inherent quality. Tá ~ ceoil ann, he is a born singer.
So, you select a (lexicographically) nearby word when there is nothing in the dictionary even with fuzzy matching ("No matches found" in both of the screenshots). I think this is the missing piece, now I understand the whole puzzle. I can even "replicate" with EVA transliteration and English (foreseeing your possible reaction: no, this is not rude by any definition of "rude" known to me):
fachys.ykal.ar.ataiin.Shol.Shory.cthres.y.kor.Sholdy
fachys => [fachis] => factors (lexicographically)
ykal => [ikal] => equal (equally?)
ar => are
ataiin => [atain] => attain (attained? to attain?)
Shol => [shol] => shawl
Shory => [shori] => surely
cthres => [kthris] => covers (lexicographically)
y => [i] => in
kor => [kor] => core
Sholdy => [sholdi] => shoulders
factors equally are attain shawl surely covers in core shoulders
"These circumstances are as easy to reach as to cover one's shoulders in a shawl."
This is an exaggeration haha
(14-11-2025, 11:00 AM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The attached file on post #163 would be the below in EVA.
po soj ton dy okolyd diy rcha schee
These occur 0,0,0,271,1,0,0,0 times in the manuscript.
"ton" is not part of any other word either, same for "diy".
I'm sure there's the odd exception, but in general you can't end words "a" or "ee".
"j" is so rare it would be like "z" in English (probably much rarer even, but a simple example), I'm not sure how much you would need to use this but just to note.
There are other issues, but with a short snippet "weirdness" can happen.
Overall, this is not very "Voynich-like" text and highlights quite well the issues with language theories so far.
We would expect something more like "poror otaiin dy okolyd dy orchal scheeg"
Can you explain your third line? The numbers of occurrence
RE: Voynich through Phonetic Irish - Bluetoes101 - 14-11-2025
It is the number of times the words you wrote are found within the manuscript as words
dy - 271
okolyd - 1
others - 0