Marco: my idea would definitely be to link to individual pages of Voynich.nu under relevant headings in the list. Even Rene admits to using shortcuts to quickly navigate through his site.
As for how this would compare to lists on René's website... Obviously I see Rene as one of the most reliable and experienced Voynich researchers out there. But he is one man, and he can only do so much. Our list should be more complete, and by virtue of the wisdom of the masses, more balanced. It's kind of like going form an encyclopedia entry written by one person to a Wikipedia page.
(02-05-2025, 04:30 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@oshfdk: With appropriate effort in the search, much can certainly be found again (provided you know what you are looking for). But this is exactly where the reader should be helped.
I think the present state of Voynich knowledge resources is nearly perfect. There is a well maintained site (where you will find a link to Stolfi's article if you are interested in text statistics at all), there is a quite helpful forum, there are good YouTube videos (and bad YouTube videos, but these work quite nicely too for keeping the public aware of the existence of the Voynich MS). There are also research papers.
I'm absolutely sure any person with minimally serious interest in any aspect of the Voynich MS will find the information quite easily. The issue as I see it is not the lack of access to information. The issue is people not willing to spend time on reading past research and preferring to dive straight into constructing their theories. And I don't see this as a problem at all, why not let people play the games they want to play, if there is no harm in these games.
On the other hand, if there are indeed pieces of forgotten research, that should be dusted off and revisited, I'm all in for making a list. But not of something that is directly linked to from the relevant page of voynich.nu, which is the opposite of forgotten as far as I understand the meaning of this word
(02-05-2025, 04:49 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As for how this would compare to lists on René's website... Obviously I see Rene as one of the most reliable and experienced Voynich researchers out there. But he is one man, and he can only do so much. Our list should be more complete, and by virtue of the wisdom of the masses, more balanced. It's kind of like going form an encyclopedia entry written by one person to a Wikipedia page.
Making a crowdsourced resource similar to voynich.nu sounds like a good idea, but this is quite different from making a list of research. I think the main advantage of voynich.nu is not that it links to this or that, but that it presents various facets of the VMS research in a structured and easy to understand manner. In a sense voynich.nu is the opposite of a list of things to read, it's a thing to read on its own.
This list of useful research has, as everything in life usually has, its good side and its not so good side. It is certainly a good idea as an introduction to someone who is beginning to be interested in the Voynich. An Elegant Enigma by Mary D'Imperio, ReneZ's page, Koen's videos and other works cited here are certainly a great contribution.
But what about people like me who have been researching VM for years and it turns out that they don't fit with conventional ideas? And in my case, it turns out this is the most-read thread on this forum. Furthermore, I hold not a theory of the script but of the book as a whole. I also follow the ideas of prestigious researchers like Panofsky and, like him, I don't believe that there is any biological or balneological section in the Voynich, contrary to popular opinion.
Where should I be? On Tavie's damned list? Or perhaps in Limbo for not having been baptized by those who know?
(02-05-2025, 05:05 PM)Antonio García Jiménez Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Where should I be? On Tavie's damned list? Or perhaps in Limbo for not having been baptized by those who know?
I understand your concerns, but we need some criteria other than viewer numbers to be included. Otherwise we'd have to link to the most popular YouTube videos as well. There are some Voynich videos out there that easily rack up more than ten times the amount of views I have on all my videos combined. In the best case, they summarize Wikipedia. But some also serve Voynich theories with a weird sauce of nationalism.
I understand what you're saying. I know that the viewer numbers is something that shouldn't be given too much importance. I don't give it much importance either.
About the organization of the list, I'm thinking we may have two main parts. One: recommended reading for people who are entirely new. Specific things they can read right away.
Two, a much bigger list sorted by topic, useful for everyone. If no alternative is proposed, we can try using Matthias' idea of x upvotes for it to be included.
(02-05-2025, 03:36 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What would be a good example of forgotten research that you think should be on the list?
D'Imperio's Markov modelling of the Biological B text, both at the internal vord level as well as line level, using an algorithm called PTAH iirc. I don't think it was presented on the An Elegant Enigma, at least not in detail I believe
Are there any actual good books about the vms ?
Does something like voynich.nu in book form exist ?
I seem to hear only positive things about "An Elegant Enigma", I haven't read it myself yet.
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