The Voynich Ninja

(12-02-2024, 12:19 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.About the "potential ‘mn’ initials", they are quire numbers, see: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

About the "mysterious Voynich characters echoed in Nostradamus’ handwriting" I would guess the one that looks like Sh is a di, there is even a dot on the i.

According to my research and within the context of the Voynich Manuscript, 'i' does actually correspond to one of the letters, but perhaps not the one you think. I otherwise see the other letter as something different than a 'd', but not ready to discuss that any further yet as it involves the linguistic (and more fluid / complicated) side of my research.

Thanks otherwise for bringing the quire numbers to my attention, I shall look into it further.

(12-02-2024, 12:42 PM)boldfrontiers Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are you accusing him of selling cheap paper imitation? I don't know if you realize it, but that's a serious accusation to make.

You don't seem to realize that modern vellum is not at all the same material as medieval vellum. It's a fact that modern (paper) vellum imitates "real" vellum, the highest quality of parchment. And yes, paper is cheaper to produce, that's why paper replaced parchment.

Quote:Modern imitation vellum is made from plasticized rag cotton or fibers from interior tree bark.

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Quote:I don't really understand why you differentiate between sizes of vellum sheets either. From what I've seen, the Voynich Manuscript is actually quite small. Yes, some foldout pages are larger. So what?

Larger = rarer = not sourced from blank pages of books (these are relatively common).
Another cheap way to get vellum is to remove ink and make a palimpsest, but the Voynich is not one of these either.

(12-02-2024, 01:22 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(12-02-2024, 12:42 PM)boldfrontiers Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Are you accusing him of selling cheap paper imitation? I don't know if you realize it, but that's a serious accusation to make.

You don't seem to realize that modern vellum is not at all the same material as medieval vellum. It's a fact that modern (paper) vellum imitates "real" vellum, the highest quality of parchment. And yes, paper is cheaper to produce, that's why paper replaced parchment.

Quote:Modern imitation vellum is made from plasticized rag cotton or fibers from interior tree bark.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quote:I don't really understand why you differentiate between sizes of vellum sheets either. From what I've seen, the Voynich Manuscript is actually quite small. Yes, some foldout pages are larger. So what?

Larger = rarer = not sourced from blank pages of books (these are relatively common).
Another cheap way to get vellum is to remove ink and make a palimpsest, but the Voynich is not one of these either.

You're not answering my question. Are you accusing the Ebayer in question of selling cheap paper imitation? Or modern imitation vellum as you now call it? I want a yes or no answer. You should also know that whatever is written here is public record. I would advise caution if you want to accuse someone of selling cheap paper imitation, especially as that Ebayer has a solid reputation. I'm no expert in law, but I don't think you want to get involved in a lawsuit that involves libel, slander, or defamation. So I would caution you to think twice about what your answer to this specific question is.

It is becoming increasingly clear to me that you are picking at straws. I said it was possible to buy vellum that was over 200 years old. I did it myself. And in my research, I say one of two things as it relates to this point:
1) The vellum could have been left blank for a time closer to 100 years. I sourced vellum that was over 200 years old - more than double 100 - to prove a point that it can be done. Not only with pages that 100+ years old, but considerably older.
2) An alternate explanation is that the pages weren't blank to begin with, but rather recycled. I've said this already, and also that I believe it to be the more likely explanation. You seem to be ignoring this completely, along with other links I provided on my voynichresearch subreddit lending further credence to the Nostradamus connection theory.

In any case, I am inclined to continue my research in silence from this point forward. That's not me giving up, quite the contrary actually. For example, I think I really need to create a website devoted entirely to the Voynich Manuscript instead of posting any further updates on my photo website. It can be done, but it's a whole lot of work. So you might not see me for a while, and that's ok. I set 2033 as the year I predict the Voynich Manuscript will be deciphered by.

I don't consider this a waste either. If anything, everyone reading this is serving as a witness to my research paper whether they like it or not. So I am very grateful for that. I did what I could to put my paper and name out there, now I am lot more comfortable researching the Voynich Manuscript at my own relaxed pace. Please also note my research paper and various reddit threads have been submitted for copyright registration with the U.S. Copyright Office, so my research is public record too.

If anyone is genuinely interested in discussing the Voynich Manuscript further in a constructive fashion, I can be reached through the contact form of my website. Otherwise peace out for now.

Sincerely,

Nicolas Raymond

(12-02-2024, 04:43 PM)boldfrontiers Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.You're not answering my question. Are you accusing the Ebayer in question of selling cheap paper imitation? Or modern imitation vellum as you now call it? I want a yes or no answer. You should also know that whatever is written here is public record. I would advise caution if you want to accuse someone of selling cheap paper imitation, especially as that Ebayer has a solid reputation. I'm no expert in law, but I don't think you want to get involved in a lawsuit that involves libel, slander, or defamation. So I would caution you to think twice about what your answer to this specific question is.

I was wondering where on earth all this aggression was coming from for such a non-issue...

...

... and then I remembered you have a Voynich theory.  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

The passion for discovery sometimes makes us lose our cool

Quote:I invite you to test my findings

No testing, just some observations:

I. Semblance of the letters ‘mich’
I.a) "Nostradamus is known to have prefaced his signature with the letters ‘mich’ or ‘Mich’ since his first name was Michel"
    -- OK, but where is the example of Nostradamus signing with 'mich' only?

I.b) The signature of Nostradamus provided, compared with either of the 2 'mich's in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. :
    --the 'm' and 'h' are completely different , the 'i' is a bit iffy,  but the 'c's are a fair match.

I.c) The 2nd 'mich' on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ( the bit that looks like 'nim gaf mich o' ) is a scramble of Nostradamus’ name.
    --Well, Nostradamus liked anagrams, so that argument is fine, though you have to work hard to do it.
    --However what about the 1st 'mich' the one that seems to spell the word 'michiton' is there no anagram there ? why not ?
    --and that 'mich'  does very much seem to be 1 continous word.

II. Potential ‘mn’ initials
    --Yeah, as nablator said they're Quire numbers.

III. Mysterious Voynich characters echoed in Nostradamus’ handwriting
  You have given 2 examples.
  1. pi = EVA-ch
     --See : You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.  --Latin abbreviations
  2. hooked pi = EVA-sh
    --in your example the 'macron' forms part of the stroke of the glyph, whereas in 99/100  cases in EVA-sh the 'macron' is an additional stroke.

IV. 52 Shades of interpretation
    --Well, a bit of Speculation is fine.

V. Astrology and Nostradamus as a Sagittarius
   Nostradamus was a Sagittarius --> VMS Zodiac ends in Sagittarius --> Therefore Nostradamus.
  --This argument seems a bit thin. [ admittedly i rephrased it, but i believe this to be a fair summary of the argument ]

V.a) Zodiac represents aspects of Nostradamus' life.
    --This has a strong whiff of cherrypicking.
==============================

Anyway , keep researching, if you are are right, then some other Nostradamus related stuff will turn up.

FYI, when the VMs was examined some years ago, when they did the C-14 testing to date the VMs parchment, it was determined that the parchment was new and *not* reused.

Just saying.

(12-02-2024, 11:51 AM)boldfrontiers Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you're wondering why Nostradamus would acquire old vellum in particular, I would ask you to look at his name first. His surname given to him at birth was de Nostredame. He stylized it later on as Nostradamus to sound more Latin, and arguably, more sophisticated. He also referenced Antiquity a lot in his writings. To me it makes perfect sense why he would source old vellum to write the Voynich Manuscript. He wanted to make it look classic. Haven't you ever purchased specialty paper like parchment for printing important documents on? I know I do, especially when it comes to printing out Certificates of Authenticity for my own photos & artwork.

Yes, my question was indeed: why would he buy old parchment.
If Nostradamus wanted to write a book on parchment, in the mid 1500's, that would make it look austere right away, so why would he go to the length (and the expense as you say) to get 150-years old parchment, instead of ready-made parchment?
Does he want to pretend that it is an old book, i.e. not written by himself?

You keep referring to old paper, as if that is somehow equivalent.
Had you been able to buy 150-years old parchment (not paper) without using the internet, then you would have a more interesting comparison. (But still not very good evidence).

Note that this discussion about acquiring / reusing old parchment is not a new one within Voynich MS discussions. It is a central part of the theory of Rich Santacoloma, who argues that the MS is a modern fake by Wilfrid Voynich. Now in that framework, it makes sense, because Voynich would be pretending that he did not make the book himself.

(By the way, I can't look at your reddit posts, since reddit doesn't like the IP address of my VPN, and I am not a member.)

(12-02-2024, 12:02 AM)boldfrontiers Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. If you want, I can even put my money where my mouth is and bet on it, just as long as it is done legally and above board.

I am both curious and possibly interested in your wager. How much are you willing to risk on that?

(12-02-2024, 12:19 PM)nablator Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.About the "mysterious Voynich characters echoed in Nostradamus’ handwriting" I would guess the one that looks like Sh is a di, there is even a dot on the i.

The mysterious ligature is definitely "di". The word is "codicillant".

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