The Voynich Ninja

(31-12-2022, 07:57 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you find the VM_word "Saiin" "et-aiin", this is what it could mean. Which brings us to the ending "....a-iin".

Aga, could you please write like everyone else, instead of publishing pictures?

I wrote it. It almost doesn't get much clearer than that. If EVA "S" = "et", then "S" + "aiin" = "Saiin" = etatis in Latin.

The pictures are for better understanding. And the original script depends on the picture. The same and yet not the same. The difference is in the spelling.

---

@Koen
Somehow the order of the text and the picture in the report has shifted. I will try to put the same thing right again.
But I still need the text. Therefore, do not delete until I have reset everything.

(31-12-2022, 05:22 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(30-12-2022, 06:36 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In fact on the last occasion that I asked you then you said that you thought the Voynich to be written in cipher.

I do not believe that this is a cipher, in the sense that ciphers should be understood in the late middle ages and early modern times.

I was just going on your previous statement. Though it was my recollection that on the occasion before that you stated that you thought it an invented language. Of course, it is perfectly legitimate to change your opinion on something, I have. Clearly this was a prior opinion not your current opinion, nevertheless on that basis you might regard the idea of the Voynich being written in cipher as plausible.

Better raise a glass on the New Year than trying to sort out what you think that I may have thought about ciphers, because the latter will take us back into threads that were locked by the moderators...

So here's to the New Year.

Have a happy new year.

Cheers.

(31-12-2022, 05:22 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Better raise a glass on the New Year

Although I don't drink I wish all a Happy New Year!

(31-12-2022, 05:22 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So here's to the New Year.

Yes, I certainly want to wish health and happiness to everyone. Best of luck, one and al!

(31-12-2022, 05:22 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(30-12-2022, 06:36 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In fact on the last occasion that I asked you then you said that you thought the Voynich to be written in cipher.

Just to be very clear, all the collected evidence about the behaviour of the Voynich MS text tells me exactly the opposite.

This is quite a turn around from your paper "NOT the solution to the Voynich MS" by René Zandbergen from 2021 where you discussed similarities with Voynichese and a verbose cipher; from just a year ago.

Likewise your gear wheel theory was, though in fairness you didn't realise it, a simplification of a cipher that I proposed; with the unnecessary element of having physical gears where a lookup table will suffice. I am certainly not suggesting plagiarism as I am quite confident that you didn't understand what I was proposing, though it didn't stop you from criticising it absolutely. I have not bothered to argue over priority for this theory as it is not one I now think correct, so it would be a bit of a waste of energy.

From what I can tell you jump from explanation to explanation for Voynichese, whether it be an invented language or verbose ciphers or gear wheels, which is perfectly fine, but when you start to make emphatic and confident statements like "Just to be very clear, [it] tells me exactly the opposite" it seems odd with reference to a theory you advocated just recently.

To quote you: “In general, I just don’t know which is the correct or even most likely answer, so I prefer to keep all options open.

This seems at variance with the certainly that you expressed in your previous statement.

My opinion of the nature of the Voynich cipher, that it is descended from diplomatic ciphers, hasn't changed in years. Of course, not changing your mind is not necessarily a good thing, but it is indicative of some kind of consistency.

(31-12-2022, 05:22 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.than trying to sort out what you think that I may have thought about ciphers, because the latter will take us back into threads that were locked by the moderators...

It is pretty clear what you thought. This is hardly a figment of my imagination as you seem to suggest. I am sure we don't need to reopen or refer to locked threads to  observe this...

Mark,

there is no need to get excited.
My paper "Not the solution...." describes a method to raise the entropy of the Voynich MS text to a level similar to that of known meaningful text. And quite as the title says, it is not meant as a solution to the MS text.
There are reasons why this will still not work.

On the paper about Cardan grilles, this describes a train of thought that I had already many years ago.
Quite possibly even before you joined the Voynich MS fora, though I can't say for sure.
If you recognise some of your own ideas in it (which I am sure you will be able to point to) then good for you.

This thread has become quite boring, so also here this is my last post to this one.

(01-01-2023, 10:37 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mark,

there is no need to get excited.
My paper "Not the solution...." describes a method to raise the entropy of the Voynich MS text to a level similar to that of known meaningful text. And quite as the title says, it is not meant as a solution to the MS text.
There are reasons why this will still not work.

On the paper about Cardan grilles, this describes a train of thought that I had already many years ago.
Quite possibly even before you joined the Voynich MS fora, though I can't say for sure.
If you recognise some of your own ideas in it (which I am sure you will be able to point to) then good for you.

This thread has become quite boring, so also here this is my last post to this one.

Rene, I was not excited, I was annoyed.

This started with you saying that: "any case, my main concern with respect to the discussion is the term 'The cipher'. We do not even know if there is one, or, if there is a method, it is anything like 'a cipher'"

You were pretty dismissive about my suggestion that tracking down historical ciphers was an endeavour with much use to Voynich research. And more than that stated your absolute confidence that the Voynich is not written in cipher. Though in the past and on your website you have expressed a great deal of uncertainty in the matter.

I agree that what you have said is not a discussion of great interest, so it is unfortunate that you chose to be so dismissive of the idea that research into historical ciphers was of real value to the understanding of the Voynich, especially as I am trying to increase interest in the Voynich community in this topic, where the majority of people in a poll have said that they believe the Voynich to be enciphered.

[attachment=7140]
Let's assume "8g" means "tum", which actually means then.

[attachment=7141]
And now let's take EVA "S" and give the character the value "et", which simply means and.

[attachment=7142]
I take "et" not only because it simply fits and also looks like the Latin "et", but also because it has the same properties as the "@". Used in the Middle Ages as "ad" = to or at.

Now we have some toys.

[attachment=7143]
Take a word made up of EVA "S" and "g", or simply "etum / etus" (eare / participle of go) or
[attachment=7144]

[attachment=7145]
In this case it would simply be "8gS" = "tumet"
[attachment=7146]

Too bad, unfortunately I can't find the original right now. It would be "4oS "= "quiet"
[attachment=7147]

Now I have some examples and a system and a possible solution.
This is based on encryption techniques in the Middle Ages. Combination techniques and deception. And this is only the simplest part.

[attachment=7148]
roasted / dried

What you can also see, no corrections had to be made. So far there are no spelling mistakes or other interpretations about dialects. Error-free up to this point.

Soon it will go on !

Sorry for the previous mistake.
This is what happens when I don't turn off the automatic translator, so it gets translated back into German and saved.

[attachment=7149]There are a number of things that make the whole thing considerably more difficult. For example, the VM word "daiin" takes on a very special attitude.
The frequency with which this word occurs has already led to many discussions.
Rene may remember when I theorised that "daiin" means all or whole.
The frequency versus the meaning certainly proves Rene right. But it also made me think.
I think we have a dialect pronunciation problem here, based on the dialectal a-o-u-i shift.
I refer to the shift that also occurs between Alemannic and Bavarian.  Anlauf- alauf-olauf.

Here are some examples of where the word could be used. I don't even think the context helps if you don't know the whole story.