The Voynich Ninja

Justin Sledge published a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about the Voynich manuscript: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

In his video Sledge argues "that recent statistical, informational and cryptological analysis is increasingly pointing in the direction of the hoax hypothesis."

I enjoyed watching this video.

It seems quite reasonable but I would be interested one day to know exactly what the minimal necessary fixed parameters were to produce the VMS. Clearly some combinations are allowed and others hidden. Then what about Grove Words? - and so on.

The video is well-made and researched, but I find his conclusions a bit quick sometimes. For example, he assumes the MS was owned by Rudolf without question, and assumes the alleged price was correct as well. Then he goes on to say that since the MS was sold to Rudolf for so much, it must have fetched a similarly high amount when it was originally sold for a similarly handsome price. This feels like a few assumptions too many. 

Let's assume the MS was indeed purchased by Rudolf at some point. This would have been almost two centuries after the VM was made. It is well possible that Rudolf's combination of wealth, status, reputation, interests and readiness to spend good money was the first time ever someone was willing and able to pay good money for the MS. It says nothing at all of what the original maker could have hoped to get for it in his own context. And let especially the perceived value of things be highly dependent on context.

He also argues (with some passion) that the VM is ugly and hence it was made quickly. I think this is a flawed argument in my opinion. There is an astonishing amount of attention to detail in some of the plant drawings. And there are so many of them. If one really wanted to make something just with the intention of making a quick fortune, why make so much? Why draw a full one hundred and twenty-nine pages with different large plant drawings? Why not stop at, say, fifty? Additionally, it is really the atrocious paint job that gives the images a sloppy look. With the paint removed, the plant drawings would look okay. So why paint it, even though painting is clearly not your forte and would likely reduce the perceived value of your work? Why write so much text, and why add so many pages with just text? And so on.

The argument of "no corrections" is obviously also flawed. We can't read the script and we don't know which variations in glyph shape are meaningful. Who knows how many times one shape has been turned into another. Or maybe mistakes are simply left in, or maybe they swiftly copied from a prepared example. As long as we don't understand the text, I don't think a perceived lack of mistakes can be used as an argument.

The best argument he used in favor of medieval hoax is probably that the text's statistics point away from simple substitution. If the text is encoded, they must have used a method unknown to medieval times. And still unknown to us. This is definitely something to keep in mind. But there is a flaw in that argument as well: if the text was generated, this was done by an equally unknown method! So why would we assume that the VM makers could come up with a novel and highly efficient method of pseudo-text generation, and not a novel encoding method?

Justin makes well researched videos. He's especially hot on Qabbalah and Jewish esoterica. A good series. He's perfected his trademark dry humour. 

I also think his conclusions about the Voynich MS. are a bit hasty. The hoax hypothesis always strikes me as an argument of last resort, and that is how Dr Sledge arrives at it - it's the hypothesis to which you turn when all else fails. The failure is to provide an adequate account of the text. But this necessitates also claiming that the illustrations are part of the hoax, and that seems to me a much more difficult position to argue. Torsten is forced to argue:

"it makes sense to illustrate a manuscript nobody can read. The illustrations would attract attention and
everyone would assume that the text might be explaining the secret he or she could see within the strange illustrations. Or, in other words, if the text cannot be read or decoded then a background story or some fanciful illustrations are needed to make a manuscript interesting."

I find this entirely unconvincing and to dismiss the illustrations and diagrams in the work as merely "fanciful" is to sell them short. I'm alert to all the problems with the text, but I don't find the illustrations nearly so opaque. They speak of a meaningful, purposeful and cogent work. If the text is gibberish, the illustrations are not, and I find it very unlikely they are just eye-candy to make the text more enticing to a prospective buyer. 

It was disappointing that the video concentrated on the text, and rehearsed the usual points, only characterising the illustrations as poorly done and inconsequential. 'Solutions' ought to be comprehensive and explain the entire work, text and pictures both. Instead, here we see obsessive study of the text and the pictures are dismissed too readily as crude and amateurish. Justin is a bit bookish. In other videos he is very textual  too and overlooks art and illustrations, rather than seeing works as an ensemble of text and visual content.  

The story that Rudolf paid a large sum for it (150+ years later!) provides no evidence as to the original purpose of the work whatsoever and cannot be taken as proof the "hoax" was profitable and well-calculated.

(24-09-2022, 11:58 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is an astonishing amount of attention to detail in some of the plant drawings. And there are so many of them. If one really wanted to make something just with the intention of making a quick fortune, why make so much? Why draw a full one hundred and twenty-nine pages with different large plant drawings? Why not stop at, say, fifty?

This is a crucial point for me. In short, there was simply too much effort put into it for it to be a hoax. Time, money, and a certain amount of care have been invested to produce a manuscript that gives the impression of a complete anthology. It is not a sketchbook or anything like that. Not to mention the text. You don't write text with 170,000 glyphs just to give the impression that you've written down something informative, but that actually makes no sense. To me, most hoax theories are basically nothing more than a "capitulation" in trying to figure out the informational content of the VMS ( with whatever methods ).

I thought the video was pretty good , this guy is knowledgeable and persuasive.
Looks like Torsten has a new fan as well

As bi3mw says, the hoax theory is a capitulation in trying to figure out the VM. And as Hermes777 says, solutions must explain the entire work, text and pictures both. The video only addresses the script and despises the iconography, which for me is fundamental to understand the symbolic nature of the glyphs of the script.

It's a shame because I've seen other videos of Justin and his training in medieval and Renaissance culture has convinced me. I think that if he tries it again he will end up seeing what it really is: an astrological science book.

So, it should be remembered that there are, effectively, two hoax theories:

1. The text is a hoax, and provably so.
2. The text is a hoax, because nothing else can be proven.

Theory 1) is very interesting. Theory 2) is not.

(24-09-2022, 11:58 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.There is an astonishing amount of attention to detail in some of the plant drawings. And there are so many of them. ... , why make so much?

(24-09-2022, 02:48 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This is a crucial point for me. In short, there was simply too much effort put into it for it to be a hoax.

I don't buy that point.
The reasons humans have for doing stuff is as varied as the number of humans itself.

- The Hitler diaries were a series of sixty volumes of journals.

- Doug+Dave spent a couple of hours traipsing around a Kentish field at midnight crushing wheatstalks below their feet
   knowing that their 'work' may not be seen let alone getting paid for it and they did it repeatedly for years.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Bored, so wrote this theory because Human.  --This post is kinda relevant so Admins move or remove as you deem fit

Five students have a beef with their Professor,
so they want to make a nonsense mss and totally fool him to prove to themselves he is the chump that they take him for.
They get a bargain basement batch of vellum from one of their buddies who is the son of a parchment producer.
Yes its got holes and flaws in some sheets, the sheets have differing thicknesses and havent been trimmed but its a good price for that much vellum.

They invent a Rugg+Taylor / Timm+Schinner type method add some cherries on top via grove words, Gallows top-line,paragraph start, behaviour.
Creating pseudotext is way easier than inventing a two-way method to both encode and decode text
with the bonus that if it was encoded it could be decoded and their impish knavery will be revealed,
 whereas if the text is nonsense no-one will ever decode it and their dastardly schemings will forever remain hidden.

They are practised at quill writing using standard iron gall ink but not real good at it and none of them can draw very well.

At the weekends and or during boring lectures they create the vms.

Using the University library they have access to lots of books, incunabula, etc.
Starting with the Herbals , they just use the template of 'Alchemical Herbals' and combine that with some observations of local plants
and create the voynich plants.
After they have made a few herbal folios they decide to add some sections to keep it interesting and because they find the process enjoyable.
The text creation method evolves, could be thats inherent to the method or intentionally done.
They move on to the other sections using their resources and giving the zodiac, the cosmo/astro illustrations
their own little tweaks, taking bits from various sources within the theme of a section and combining them
to make something similar to but slighly different from existing sources.
--Exception is the pharma , AFAIK there is no known comtemporary illustrations of bits of plant and roots all on the same page.

After say a year of part time work, Bingo, the VMS has been created.

They show it to the Prof. along with some story about its provenance including a mysterious merchant from Egypt or some such.
The Prof. laps it up , much Lulz ensue , maybe the Prof. even purchases it from them which makes the rascally students laugh harder, ( grrrr...evil students )
and so the origin story of the Voynich Manuscript is concluded.

Later on the VMS gets rebound out of order and painted possibly by a youngster who may have made the chicken scratches as well as the slapdash painting.
Case Closed.

Except:
I want to believe...that is has meaning  :hopeful emoji: