(24-09-2022, 04:18 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.- The Hitler diaries were a series of sixty volumes of journals.
- Doug+Dave spent a couple of hours traipsing around a Kentish field at midnight crushing wheatstalks below their feet
knowing that their 'work' may not be seen let alone getting paid for it and they did it repeatedly for years.
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Well, the Hitler diaries were produced in order to sell them to the magazine "Stern". So there was clearly a financial interest in the foreground here.
With regard to your second example, I would assume that it is exclusively about self-realization. It is difficult for me to assume that a complete manuscript was created out of this need.
(24-09-2022, 04:18 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The reasons humans have for doing stuff is as varied as the number of humans itself.
According to Maslow, the needs of people, i.e. the drive to do something, can be represented hierarchically. People do not do things randomly. Seen from this perspective, the variability of the motivation is probably rather lower than one might generally assume.
Admin: If this is too far off topic, please delete.
Discussions of the arguments made in the video (in this case motivation) are relevant, don't worry.
(24-09-2022, 05:52 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.... painted possibly by a youngster who may have made the chicken scratches as well as the slapdash painting.
It was the little cousin who liked to paint but was 6 years old at the time and easily confused by interior/exterior outlines.
I could not bear the presenter's calling the Voynich Manuscript "the Voynik Manuscript"...
The movie produced by dr. Justin Sledge is one more example of the possibility that the academics, too, can be mistaken, mainly because the VM language and alphabet are consistently referred to as 'unknown', although the alphabet contained quite a few easy recognizable Latin letters, and Slovenian language was never explored as a candidate, although the origin of the VM would fall in the region of Slovenian speaking territory. It is true that in coded writing, the letters were assigned for different sound, but this was also the case of writing with Latin letters in different European languages. There were also some new letter-shapes invented to suit the vernacular languages.
If the experts had proven that the VM text was not encrypted, maybe another approach could be more successful, such as manual search in the medieval manuscript to find proper transcription alphabet, and manual transcription of the VM text. Why manual? Because the computer does not know how to read the VM glyphs properly. Words like EVA daiin, chol and chedy can be transcribed in different ways, assuming that different combinations of minims can generate different Latin letters, and that the letter forms ch, sh, bh, cz, oz are difficult to differentiate, and that letter u (except final) is not even recognized in the EVA alphabet. Actually, without knowing the VM language, even manual reading is very difficult.
The other linguistic peculiarity Dr. Sledge uses as a proof of hox is the great frequency of similar words and root words that differ for only one glyph. There might be a reason for this. This is one of the characteristics of Slovenian language: Because it is highly inflected, similar suffixes could be found in the same sentence (or on the same page if it is written is similar grammatical style) for the strings of pronouns, adjectives and nouns. PRODAJA TISTEGA STAREGA RJAVEGA KONJA. (He is selling that old brown horse.)
NA SVEČNICO SVEČENIK SVEČI SVEČE in SVEČANO POSVEČUJE LUDI. (On the Feasto of Candles priest is blessing candles and gives festive blessing to people.)
I am sure such examples could also be found in different languages.
The other peculiarity mentioned are the root words that differ for only one glyph. This, too, can be found in Slovenian lanugage: Example: DAN (day, given), DAM (I give), DAR (gift), DAV (this morning), DAŠ (you give). DAM (I give), TAM (there), KAM (where), VAM (to you), SAM (I am, alone, by myself)
Similar pattern could be observed with other short root words which could be further combined to form a new expanded meaning.
Based on a contemporary materialistic way of thinking, Dr. Sledge's concluded that a medieval author would invest at least four months of intensive work to produce a 'nonsense text' and 'ugly illustrations' on cheap velum, so that he could sell his hox for good money. He had no way of knowing how much Emperor Rudolph paid for it. It is not even clear if Rudolph bought it for 600 ducates, or if he just paid that much for it. Maybe he was able to read a book, because if it was written in Slovenian, his predecessor Maximillian would be able to read it. It is documented in Slovenian sources that Thomas Prelogar was hired by Emperor Frederic to teach his son Maximillian how to speak Slovenian, and that Prelogar even wrote Slovenian grammar book and Dictionary in 1470. It is not known what script he used, because his book was lost, but the fact remains that Emperor Maximillian was proud of his ability to speak Slovenian.
Of course, there could be other reasons why Rudolph paid so much money. And there also could be a reason why the Czecks were not able to read it, although Czeck and Slovenian languages are similar.
(24-09-2022, 05:52 PM)RobGea Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Bored, so wrote this theory because Human. --This post is kinda relevant so Admins move or remove as you deem fit
Five students have a beef with their Professor,
so they want to make a nonsense mss and totally fool him to prove to themselves he is the chump that they take him for.
They get a bargain basement batch of vellum from one of their buddies who is the son of a parchment producer.
Yes its got holes and flaws in some sheets, the sheets have differing thicknesses and havent been trimmed but its a good price for that much vellum.
I think you're attributing waaaaay too much work ethic to students in any time
And there is
no way the students wouldn't tell everybody and anybody what had happened - otherwise, what's the point?
Actually, exactly this scenario happened to Athanasius Kircher a few hundred years later. Some of his students thought he was getting cocky, so they forged a letter in invented hieroglyphics, which he happily confirmed was genuine and translated for them. It was all nonsense, and Kircher was roundly shown up for the pompous fool he was.
If the author(s) of the Voynich wanted to produce a hoax manuscript for sale would they have really produced something that looked like the Voynich, surely a customer would not be interested in purchasing an "ugly duckling". Was there really a market for such texts at that time? If there was a market then why are there no other such texts from the time. If there was no known market for such a text at that time would it have not been a big risk of time, money and effort to produce and try to sell such a text? If the Voynich was commissioned in advance by a collector with the desire to buy an arcane or magical secret text, wouldn't the collector not want to buy an "ugly duckling". If the Voynich was not produced to make money then why would one produce a hoax?
In short I find it hard to see what the rationale for producing a hoax would really be.
(24-09-2022, 02:44 PM)Hermes777 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The story that Rudolf paid a large sum for it (150+ years later!) provides no evidence as to the original purpose of the work whatsoever and cannot be taken as proof the "hoax" was profitable and well-calculated.
Right, and proof for this is that Voynich himself was unable to sell it another couple of centuries later. So we could use exactly the same argument (from yet another context) to prove that the MS is unsellable.
The only
certain instance
ever of the VMS being sold was when Hans.P.Krause paid $24,500 for it on 12 July 1961 #You are not allowed to view links.
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Thus proving the VMS is sellable.
Oh, wait, Wilfred must have purchased it from the monks as well...but is that verifiable? Is there any paperwork?.. Probably not , because it was super secret.
So the above still stands.
A bit selective there, Rob. The argument made in the video is "this manuscript was once sold for a huge price, so it was very sellable" (apparently historical context can be disregarded). In the Voynich.nu link, we read:
Quote:The New York book dealer Hans P. Kraus, who decided to take Anne Nill as his secretary, bought the MS on 12 July 1961 for $24,500. He valued it very highly and tried to sell it for $160,000 (equivalent with the amount Voynich had asked for it before), but he did not succeed.
Voynich obtains the manuscript with the hopes of selling it, does not succeed before his death.
Kraus buys the MS for a much lower price, hoping to sell it for Voynich's original price, does not succeed.
So in our confirmed history of the manuscript, two experienced sellers were unable to make a profit off the VM. I think the scales tip towards unsellability.