The Voynich Ninja

In reference to another thread, I have a simple as well as basic question: Do the illustrations in Quire 13 partly have a direct relation to the adjacent text paragraph or do they describe an independent content in the sequence which is only indirectly related to the text as a whole ?

As an example I would cite You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. . The illustrations follow each other closely. One gets the impression that a direct relation to the text paragraph to the right should be established. Otherwise there would be no reason for such "compression". Obviously everything had to fit on one page. On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it looks similar.

On You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. , the illustration in the header clearly encloses vertically the entire text paragraph ( especially on the left side ). The two illustrations following on the left also each "mark" a new paragraph of text. This division also makes me suspect that text and illustrations are directly related. It does not seem very likely that they would have to be considered independently of each other.

(20-04-2022, 04:12 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This division also makes me suspect that text and illustrations are directly related. It does not seem very likely that they would have to be considered independently of each other.

After years of studying the manuscript you begin to suspect that the images and text are linked? And what did you think before?

Has this new perspective given you any ideas about the pages you quoted?

(20-04-2022, 04:36 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.After years of studying the manuscript you begin to suspect that the images and text are linked? And what did you think before?

I was never sure and I am not sure now. It never hurts to read other opinions on the matter. Better late than never

(20-04-2022, 04:36 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Has this new perspective given you any ideas about the pages you quoted?

I wouldn't say that my preferred perspective is new, but should it be true, then that might provide an opportunity for speculation on the textual content, which could be narrowed down paragraph by paragraph. That might well be a small step forward.

Is there a reason to presume that it has to be all of one type or all of the opposite? Text might be relevant in some illustrations and not in others.

If illustration and text do correlate as one expects in a standard manuscript, the botanical and pharmaceutical pages would be prime candidates where such correlation should occur. As far as I know, that has not happened. There is no connection to written examples from historical manuscripts. There is no established VMs vocabulary for plant parts and no common terms for the manufacture of herbal compounds.

Does the circular text around the VMs wreath have anything to do with the wreath?

So far nothing has been proven about text translation. It's going to take more than just one word at a time. Perhaps it will need to be the presence of historical text in the VMs that is required to prove the translation.

(20-04-2022, 04:12 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Do the illustrations in Quire 13 partly have a direct relation to the adjacent text paragraph
or
do they describe an independent content in the sequence which is only indirectly related to the text as a whole ?

Boring answer: Until the text is read/deciphered there is no definitive way to answer this question.

More fun answer: Some comparisons with other mss that have known texts may be helpful in this regard.

For instance the Harley MS 1735 in the 'general chat' thread,  J.Crophills notebook

@RobGea: Dealing with Harley MS 1735 was exactly why I opened this thread. The urine flasks in MS Harley (folio. 43r-44r) are also not entirely uninteresting in connection with the illustrations in Quire 15/19. Although they are obviously not the same objects, they could also mark sections of text.

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(20-04-2022, 06:10 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Does the circular text around the VMs wreath have anything to do with the wreath?

Have you made any proposals? What could this text be about?

Given the different religious clues in the VMs and the religious trends that occurred during the C-14 times, there is the question as to what might be the purpose of the VMs wreath illustration.

The only interpretation I found has to do with the increasing significance of Mariology in the Church. The VMs wreath could be an early visual representation of the Wreath of the Virgin. The papal dedication of such a wreath is an annual tradition still current in the Catholic Church.

If the text correlates to the image, then the text might be a form of ritual prayer to the Virgin Mary. 'Salve Regina' or 'Ave Stella Maris' might be possibilities.

The possibility that VMs Virgo was also a subtle representation of Mary standing on a crescent moon as suggested some time back would also help to supplement the wreath's interpretation.

@bi3mw
yes the urine flasks in MS Harley 1735 (folio. 43r-44r) seem to correspond well to the text and as you point out, give a nice parallel to the 'pharma' section of the VMS.

Also in the pharma section ( not 100% sure ) there appears to be 1 'medicinal jar' per paragraph thereby showing a quantitive relation between imagery and text.

In Q13, i count about 5/20 folios where the number of images corresponds to the number of paragraphs.


Noticeable in MS Harley 1735 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is that the text does not accomodate the drawings, its a block of text with the drawings around it.

Whereas in Q13 several folios have text that looks as though its written around the image,

though the text could be written after the drawings were done and the text--imagery relation is none,

the layout of some Q13 folios gives an impression of an harmonious whole, though of course this is a qualitive measure.

All that I see is a similarity of compositional style. A series of items is discussed sequentially in relatively short order. One would appear to be urinalysis, as suggested- and the VMs might be pharmaceutical compounding. The purpose of this style generally is to provide instruction, but there is no reason for any further similarities.

The VMs nymphs, found after the Zodiac sequence, divide themselves into two primary groups: those that are standing around in green water, and those that are off doing other things. It's a diverse group, from Melusine to the Agnus Dei, and look, there are rainbows, but the rainbow throne is empty. However, if an old potential identification of the Golden Fleece were to make any sense in relation to the understanding of the VMs, then each of those items, and others can be shown to contribute to that interpretation. Melusine, in the Luxembourg interpretation, is a mythical ancestress to the Valois lines of the C-14 era, through the mother of the first generation, who was Bonne of Luxembourg. Melusine was still celebrated by Philip the Good, Duke of Burgundy, at the Feast of the Pheasant. Philip the Good began the Order of the Golden Fleece in 1430.

It turns out, according to popular acclaim, that there are two potential versions of the Golden Fleece in the VMs. One is associated with the representation of Melusine, and the other is combined with an interesting version of an Agnus Dei representation with provenance connections to Burgundy.

So, what about the VMs rainbows? What connects the rainbow throne to the state of Burgundy and fits the C-14 dates. It's La Sainte Hostie de Dijon. Dijon was the primary city in the early history of Burgundy. This gift from the pope to the duke was serious business. This was in 1435, still inside the C-14 dates.

And even more unexpected is the identification of something unseen, the proposed object potentially hidden by the clever, starry canopy in the middle of the VMs Central Rosette. Is there a hexagonal item that fits the C-14 dates, that has connections to Burgundy and was well known?  And really, there is. A sculpture called the 'Well of Moses' in the church in Dijon from 1405. The VMs nine rosettes represent 'New Jerusalem' and at the center is the hidden 'Well of Moses'. During the 1430s, the city of Dijon was the star of the north, almost like a 'New Jerusalem'.

A growing set of interpretations; the Fleece x 2, Melusine, the Agnus Dei of 1313, the Host, and the Well (the VMs cosmos and more) all reveal the things that the VMs artist knew. They are all coherent with historical events. They can all be tied together within the C-14 dates.