Looking at the t/o map, we must pay attention that this is not just a circle divided into 3 parts. The pattern around it (strokes and circles), as well as the strange channel adjacent to the part of the map where Europe should usually be located, tell us that the author wants to show some processes or connections of the globe / world, regardless of whether it is a map of parts of the world or map of elements or something else.
I don't remember whether it was mentioned by me or anyone, the channel connected to the globe can mean pole (North Pole).
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This xiv c. image of the t/o map with the angels turning the world shows one of the poles in the same region as the channel to the Rosettes t/o map is located. Poles in this manuscript are marked "artich" and "artitis". For me, it sounds like the same thing, so I'm not sure whether the bottom pole is North. Your thoughts?
I'd like to ask your opinion on another reason why I'm starting to think the two suns, T/O-map and "clock thing" are not emblems for the cardinal directions. (For the first reason, see here You are not allowed to view links.
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Take a look at You are not allowed to view links.
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The four outer emblems from the rosettes are present as well: two suns, a T/O-drawing and some connected dots. Consider the suns though:
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If these two suns are sunrise and sunset, then why are there moons in between them? A moon for north would make some sense, but the same item appears on the opposite side. This does not prove anything about the rosettes of course, but it may be an indication that the VM does not see diagonally opposed suns as east and west. Unless south is a moon...
The Rosettes page doesn't contain an obvious image of the Moon. This the difference. One must think where it is on f86r, or why it is out there, or what is the Moon on that page. As for the You are not allowed to view links.
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Login to view. diagram, you know, I don't think it implies cardinal points, while the structure seems similar. Probably the matter is just in symbolical meaning of the numbers.
In my opinion, You are not allowed to view links.
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Here is the trine:
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Here the sextile:
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Here the square
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And here the opposition
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They are the major planetary aspects. Here they are represented in relation to the sun and the moon. We can see these aspects outlined in many volvelles, as in this
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Searcher: why would two opposing suns be cardinal directions on one page, and not cardinal directions on another?
Antonio: I didn't know about these planetary aspects, do you have any earlier examples?
From the time of the Voynich I know of no document that uses little heads to compose the planetary aspects. In this also the VM looks original.
From the fifteenth century is this volvelle in which the symbols of the planetary aspects are drawn in the inner circle
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I believe that the planetary aspect of trine is drawn in the astronomical clock on the Rosettes folio. It is the same one we see in the upper left corner of You are not allowed to view links.
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I had never heard about these things. It seems to come from India? Was it even known in early 15th century Europe?
The main planetary aspects are from the Western tradition, from Ptolemy, and made known in Europe in the Middle Ages through Arabic astrology. I believe that at the time of the Voynich, the first third of the fifteenth century, the symbols of the aspects, like the zodiacal symbols (ideograms), were not yet standardized.
In the series of glyphs that are repeated in f57v, I believe that several of them, the rarest, are incipient symbols of planetary aspects. For example these
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The first can be the trine aspect, which would later become a triangle and the second the quincunx, which represents the distance of 150º between two planets.
Also this other from the You are not allowed to view links.
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This would be the semisquare, 45º distance between one planet and another
(09-02-2022, 09:43 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Searcher: why would two opposing suns be cardinal directions on one page, and not cardinal directions on another?
I supposed the answer was given in my previous reply.
If you think that these two diagrams generally the same, as I thought some time ago, you automatically mean that the right top and left bottom rosettes hide the moon or its influence. For example, I supposed that the right top rosette depicts tides caused by the Moon, and the two streams around this rosette also relate to tides, while I couldn't find an explanation for the left bottom rosette.
Now I think about that why in this case the Moon wasn't depicted clearly on f86r, as on f67v.
I see on the pages of the cosmo section that the number four have an importance for the author, like it is the basis (f86r, f86v, f67v, f68r).