I went quite deep in researching this fashion. It is sometimes referred to as "international" or "courtly" style, exactly because it was fashionable at all trendy courts of Europe. I first also thought the MS was 13th century because of the Roman numeral, but when I saw the baggy sleeves on one of the figures I knew it had to be ca. 1400-1430.
So in short, this fashion does not help us to pin down a location, but it is very good at pinning down time to a few decades (and indeed is used as such by professionals).
Perhaps you've hit the height of fashion, but the chronology may be a bit broader.
At least according to this article.
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
Also note Burgundy:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
The 1420's are the third decade, and these two decades could be significant. I don't know.
I have a distinct feeling that the (or "a") Breviarium Monasterii St.Georgii has been in the attention before.
There could be more than one of course.
(07-02-2021, 09:10 PM)MichelleL11 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Country: Czech Republic
Location: Prague
Library: National Library of the Czech Republic
Signature: XIII.C.1a
Header
Title: [Breviarium monasterii s. Georgii]
Dating: the first decade of the 15th century
I haven't been able to find this dating information at the link provided. Where can it be found?
Going back to Koen's point about there potentially being a star on Virgo's hat:
I looked at this while I was writing my blog You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. about the Voynich Virgo.
Of course, if there is a star (or several) in her headgear, this would further reinforce my view of the Woman of the Apocalypse as model: standing on the moon, crowned with the stars.
But I couldn't decide whether or not there really is a star there or if it's just an artifact of the uneven blue paint.
(08-02-2021, 10:07 AM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (07-02-2021, 09:10 PM)MichelleL11 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Country: Czech Republic
Location: Prague
Library: National Library of the Czech Republic
Signature: XIII.C.1a
Header
Title: [Breviarium monasterii s. Georgii]
Dating: the first decade of the 15th century
I haven't been able to find this dating information at the link provided. Where can it be found?
It's the Google translation of the circled text.
[
attachment=5277]
(07-02-2021, 09:16 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The pointy sleeves with the jagged edges are not seen in this Virgo image.
From what I recall, these were quite typical for the 1420's.
Hi Rene,
I think the best match for Virgo's sleeves in a zodiac sign I have seen is the male Gemini in the You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view., Olomouc K-14905, a manuscript pointed out by Darren Worley You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.. The ms is currently in Czechia, but it appears to be written in German and Darren wrote that it is from Swabia. The library site dates it to the beginning of the XV century.
The zodiac series is mixed with several other emblems: they are used as entries in a bibliomancy system (a lot-book).
As Darren pointed out, the other illustrations are also interesting. In particular the volvelle which features something vaguely similar to a tethered star.
[
attachment=5280]
All zodiac medallions:
When I look back and forth, to compare the dagnabit results, based on the appearance of dagged sleeves, about all that can be said is that this result is a wavy pattern that is rather minimal, as compared with rather more extreme examples such as the lady's dress, or the figure to the lower right, etc. The VMs Virgo's sleeves are quite minimal, though it seems clear that some variation was intended. There are much straighter lines in many other places on the illustration. Yet, it still could be casually overlooked.
The nebuly line around the volvelle is crisp and clean, but orange and black is a distinctive color scheme.
The sleeves could be fur, lace, or dagging. The fur used in sleeves was soft fur, a very fine texture (possibly rabbit fur) and might be suggested very loosely.
Examples of fur:
[attachment=5284] [attachment=5287]
Cod. Pal. germ 432 BNF fr 606
Dagging:
[attachment=5283] [attachment=5285] [attachment=5286]
Doc. Fab XVI Codex Pal. germ 432 [font=Tahoma, Verdana, Arial, sans-serif] KBR 10892[/font]
I don't think this is dagging (dagging was a cheap substitute for much more expensive lace). I think this is actually intended to represent lace (possibly crochet or tatting):
[
attachment=5288] [
attachment=5289]
Ms NAL 1673
This might be dagging or fancy lace (note the bumps on the bumps):
[attachment=5290]
Add 1277
Possibly lace:
[attachment=5291]
Tacuinum (c. 1390)
To the pictures of the zodiac sign ( Gemini ).
Yes, it is written in German.
Swabia, quite possible. ( buech die weishait ) what is written above it. We still write and speak "buech" that way today.
Above the Capricorn. ( gut di gais der das chumxxx ).
The "ch" of chumt suggests southern Swabia.