The Voynich Ninja

King of the Romans was the title used by the German king following his election by the princes.

Wenceslaus IV
King of Bohemia
1404 to1419

(21-01-2021, 10:39 PM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The princes of eastern and central Europe would vote in a new Holy Roman Emperor.
Eventually it became an elected position.
To become HRE you needed a coalition of alliances and marriages. 

I wonder how this worked in the case of Sigismund, the only person to be Holy Roman Emperor between the years 1404 and 1438, though his reign was only from 1433 to 1437. Why there was no Holy Roman Emperor from 1404 to 1432 I do not really understand. In his case I am not sure how the electoral process worked to make him Holy Roman Emperor.

(22-01-2021, 11:54 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am not sure how the electoral process worked to make him Holy Roman Emperor.

The German emperor was always elected by the princes of the states. This was always a difficult and lengthy procedure.

(23-01-2021, 12:12 AM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(22-01-2021, 11:54 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I am not sure how the electoral process worked to make him Holy Roman Emperor.

The German emperor was always elected by the princes of the states. This was always a difficult and lengthy procedure.

Well, it seems that in order to become Holy Roman Emperor, he became King of Italy and required the blessings of the Pope. So I get the impression he needed even wider support including the endorsement of the heads of some Italian states. I think you are right it does appear to be a complicated process.

A lot of people wanted to be hre. So if you thought you were in with a shot you wouldn't back anyone else,
and if you weren't powerful enough to be it, but had a voice, you tried to sell your support to the highest bidder. Made it complicated.
But at the same time, this sort of thing probably went mainly unnoticed by everyone outside of court and even then it only came up infrequently.

The last few posts in this thread tell us a lot about what is wrong in much of Voynich research. It is the inability or unwillingness to check some simple facts. The Deutsche Königswahl is one of the most and best researched topics in Medieval History. Even Wikipedia gets most of it right.

Sigismund lost the election against Jobst by the seven Kurfürsten, but won it, because J. suddenly died a short time later and became through this election Rex Romanorum, he was later, as was necessary crowned Emperor by the pope.

One would expect that someone who writes about these things would at least read the (German) wikipedia article about Sigismund, but no ...

(23-01-2021, 10:19 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The last few posts in this thread tell us a lot about what is wrong in much of Voynich research. It is the inability or unwillingness to check some simple facts. The Deutsche Königswahl is one of the most and best researched topics in Medieval History. Even Wikipedia gets most of it right.

Sigismund lost the election against Jobst by the seven Kurfürsten, but won it, because J. suddenly died a short time later and became through this election Rex Romanorum, he was later, as was necessary crowned Emperor by the pope.

One would expect that someone who writes about these things would at least read the (German) wikipedia article about Sigismund, but no ...

Thanks for the information. It is great to get answers to questions and I will check out the German wikipedia article. Certainly any topic can be researched. I am not unwilling to research a given topic, though it depends how much effort is required to research it. It is not always clear as to where to look for answers to questions, but I raised this topic here to see what others had to say. In addition this was raised as part of a broader subject of history from 1404 to 1438.

I remember you expressing your opinion as to the level of knowledge about the Holy Roman Emperor, on Nick's website. I am not confident as to how much is known or survives of Sigismund, but I contacted what I understand to be the main archives holding his material and they said that they don't to the best of their knowledge have enciphered letters from his period, yet given that Rupert was writing ciphers he must have been too.

I think my research into diplomatic ciphers of the period is a testament to my thoroughness.

(23-01-2021, 10:19 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Sigismund became through this election Rex Romanorum, he was later, as was necessary crowned Emperor by the pope.

He was made Holy Roman Emperor much later(22 years) than him becoming King of the Germans, so I assume it was his Italian involvement that led to that after he received the Iron Crown of Italy.

(There are cipher keys in the Tranchedino for communication with the Holy Roman Emperor, but I get the impression no record of ciphers used by the Holy Roman Emperor survives. Part of the problem with the Holy Roman Emperor lies in the fact that the documents associated with him seem to be spread over various archives.)