(17-01-2021, 08:25 AM)davidjackson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Mark,
I said scatter gun approach.
I am keen to get away from discussing whether the basis of the thread is relevant or useful and actually focus on the subject matter. I could waste a lot of time justifying why I think the question is useful and then never get on to the subject matter of the thread. These kind of discussions can be exasperating I find and can make me wonder why I even bother posting on Voynich Ninja when what I see as a perfectly reasonable and largely unambiguous subject is dismissed, though only by a few so far.
Referring to Burgundy or Joan of Arc or the wars in Lombardy are all tangible and pertinent.
OK, here are some resources which may be of interest to you:
Historic events of note:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
A rough social timeline of the period:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
Europe in the 15th century, a few brief history overview which while simple have lots of good points
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
15th century fashion:
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
Early 15h century trade routes
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
and discussion of trade of the period: You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
Print timelines
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
Influential period maps (later)
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
I hope these may be of interest to you, shout if you have any more directions you want to explore.
(17-01-2021, 12:18 AM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Wikipedia of fifteenth century history offers up:
1410: The Battle of Grunwald is the decisive battle of the Polish–Lithuanian–Teutonic War leading to the downfall of the Teutonic Knights.
1410-1415: The last Welsh war of independence, led by Owain Glyndŵr.
1415: Henry the Navigator leads the conquest of Ceuta from the Moors marking the beginning of the Portuguese Empire.
1415: Battle of Agincourt fought between the Kingdom of England and France.
1415: Jan Hus is burned at the stake as a heretic at the Council of Constance.
1419–1433: The Hussite Wars in Bohemia.
1424: James I returns to Scotland after being held hostage under three Kings of England since 1406.
1429: Joan of Arc ends the Siege of Orléans and turns the tide of the Hundred Years' War.
1431 January 9 – Pretrial investigations for Joan of Arc begin in Rouen, France under English occupation.
1431 March 3 – Pope Eugene IV succeeds Pope Martin V, to become the 207th pope.
1431 March 26 – The trial of Joan of Arc begins.
1431 May 30 – Nineteen-year-old Joan of Arc is burned at the stake.
1431 June 16 – the Teutonic Knights and Švitrigaila sign the Treaty of Christmemel, creating anti-Polish alliance
1431 September – Battle of Inverlochy: Donald Balloch defeats the Royalists.
1431 October 30 – Treaty of Medina del Campo, consolidating peace between Portugal and Castille.
1431 December 16 – Henry VI of England is crowned King of France.
I actually do think some items are at least hinted at. Henry the Navigator & Ceuta, Council of Constance. I would add
1419 Monaco becomes a monarchy.
1419 Venetian Ottoman peace treaty
1420-1424 Diplomacy between Philip the Good's envoy & the Ottoman empire
1425 Ottomans take Thessalonika
1420-26, 1431-32, 1435-44 Wars between Venice and Genoa
1430 new peace treaty between Venice and Ottomans
I am sure there is much more that is relevant.
For me what is historically important in relation to the VM is the mentality, the culture of educated people.
Why did a cardinal of the Catholic Church like Pierre d'Ailly believe in astrology to predict great historical events?
Why was medicine based on the Zodiac Man, whose image we see so much at this time, so respected?
Why did astrology become such an important university discipline?
I believe that delving into these questions will help to understand the VM
Antonio's post mentioning astronomy is relevant.
If we take the Voynich illustrations at face value, it seems the makers cared about plants, stars and medicine/balneotherapy.
If they cared enough about these topics to write a whole book about them, I would think that meteorological and astronomical events, as well as medical events (inventions, discoveries, translations of important foreign works, droughts, epidemics, great conjunctions and comets, etc etc etc) might be at least as important to them as the outcome of the battle of Inverlochy.
(17-01-2021, 10:42 PM)VViews Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Antonio's post mentioning astronomy is relevant.
If we take the Voynich illustrations at face value, it seems the makers cared about plants, stars and medicine/balneotherapy.
If they cared enough about these topics to write a whole book about them, I would think that meteorological and astronomical events, as well as medical events (inventions, discoveries, translations of important foreign works, droughts, epidemics, great conjunctions and comets, etc etc etc) might be at least as important to them as the outcome of the battle of Inverlochy.
Feel free to point to other specific events and the years in which they occurred, though I think it better to view them in terms of general historical events rather than very directly linked to the Voynich as that is covered elsewhere in this forum and I trying to look at the general backdrop to the Voynich rather than speculated Voynich related events.
1436 Vlad Dracul becomes ruler of Wallachia (Dracula means son of Dracul, this is Vlad the Impaler's dad, Vlad II, little Vlad the Impaler would have been around 7 depending on what year of birth you go by.)
(18-01-2021, 12:27 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.1436 Vlad Dracul becomes ruler of Wallachia (Dracula means son of Dracul, this is Vlad the Impaler's dad, Vlad II, little Vlad the Impaler would have been around 7 depending on what year of birth you go by.)
I think all these kinds of details brought together paint a picture of the time. I am most familiar with Italian history over this period, but all these areas are interconnected. And who is to say what relevance they have to the Voynich as it is untranslated.
I would think events like the construction of Florence Cathedral should be considered important as they were key to the renaissance.
(16-01-2021, 08:27 PM)Mark Knowles Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Whilst not everyone believes the Voynich manuscript is European in origin my impression is that this is the dominant view.
Hi Mark. I just want to reiterate that "European in origin" and "Non-European in origin" are not necessarily the only options. Which i mean to say that "origin" is the pertinent word here.
For example, if you sent me a note from Great Britain, and then i translate it to Voynichese and send it back to you, that does not tell clearly a third party who eventually finds the note in Germany whether the origin is from Great Britain, where i translated it, or from the origin of the Voynichese language. So things are very unclear.
It is possible for instance that the VMS has content that originated outside of Europe and then was translated in Europe.
And so from many angles it could look like it were from Europe. From other angles it might look like it were from outside Europe.