The Voynich Ninja

(13-07-2019, 06:05 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(13-07-2019, 04:49 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Page 75r:
Upper 10 words translation:
Mire to be rooted up, to moisten in the body, loot to remove please. To burst forth blatant, to gather of desire.
Paragraph translation: (first 10 lines)
Live to breach a promise this hated one of form seduced. Beauty of husk pressure powerful thorn bush. Sweep away this to breach a promise of strength of the hated one, to sweep away fruitful up to this point gently, become beautiful. Oh please beauty at that time, like this beauty rest. Beauty assembled as a group, breathe out rest primordial waters, dew of the Lord, bright as colorful flowers. Heron/Position of honor, handful of peace, raise the price of privilege, to be heated hated one, how long? Sweep premature baby, a weapon of beauty bubbling spring, trembler of beauty dream, rest, sweep premature baby, God to sweep premature baby. Something hallowed to split into pieces, house early fruit relief, remove Lord hated one in heat/fire at that time. Sweep fair poppy hollowed unripe fruit, hollowed of house poppy up to this point, sweep rest. Bridle to fly up to this point to become green. My own long life of hallowed poppy, hallowed of young/seeds fair up to this point hated one rest. This to become green, my own poppy, to be vexed an hour. Vex lactating breast, my own poppy up to this point. Hallowed poppy, my own Lord of bright colorful flowers to be healed. Lord of pillows* , my own Lord of trembler poppy, branch poppy companion vexed up to this point, fool be afraid. Up to this point poppy hallowed cometh out to sweep Lord of vexed hated one, then my own poppy contempt, hallowed poppy pillows*, then exhaust oneself of pillows*. My own Lord of rest, firepot premature baby innocent rest, blossom poppy. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. 
*pillows Strongs # 3704, was used in the King James Bible in Ezekiel 13: 18-20. Breaking down the word would be “full moon + cometh out” = menstruation.  After reading the verses, they coincide with the 9 rosette folio causing abortions, and using the fetus/branch for nefarious means.
Poppy was used to help relieve pain and bring menstruation and is mentioned by Nicholas Culpeper in 1649, in Culpeper’s The Complete Herbal.
Lastly a picture in Alchemical symbolism. The tree is the Source of Origin (placenta) the basket pictured is the womb, and the branch is the child. Notice the ladies bathing at the bottom. 
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Monica, i have my own interpretation of this page based on the imagery and unfortunately i don't see much in the way of commonality with your take and mine. I can't comment on your methods as i dont have knowledge in that area, but i do find it interesting, it might well be a parallel theme to the one i see, i was thinking about You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and that the top image there seems like a womb to many and i can see that too, and there i can correlate my other ideas with the idea of cradle of modern civilization, perhaps this one is of a similar vein, but one which did not see fruition, or saw destruction. In my interpretation it is one of the last areas known to the western world besides those not shown. Also the business of opium trade is largest in the area of the world i relate to this page.

Hi Linda, we all have different things we see in the Voynich, and in many cases, most are correct. Jabir said a truly magical book would be interpreted differently by different people, which is probably why he is know as the father of "gibberish". These were the Persian magicians whose craft was being suppressed during the 200 years of darkness, when the Arabs took control and erased their history and writing system... all to stop the magic they feared.

"Many of these books were translated into Latin in the Middle Ages. Among his other significant books were Kitab al-Zuhra (Book of Venus) on the noble art of alchemy. Jabir dedicated this book to the Abbasid Caliph Haroun Al-Rashid. His books on chemistry, including his Kitab-al-Kimya (Book of Chemistry), Kitab Al Sabe’en (The Seventy Books), were translated into Latin and various European languages as well. These translations were popular in Europe for several centuries and have influenced the evolution of modern chemistry. One book he wrote, Kitab Al Ahjar (Book of Stones),You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. was written in highly esoteric incomprehensible code, understood only by those initiated into his school of alchemy. It is claimed that the English word “gibberish,” which means nonsense, was derived from his name “Geber” and is believed to be related to his writings in code.”   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

Quire 19, pg. 102r1:
 Pessaries: Dew facet suppository
                                                                Firepot prolonged coffin/ark, aran*/sweet laurel

Pure gold mother, to sweep proper life premature baby. Strength pure gold wicket device**, firepot swifter, fair formed, to sweep then deep sleep. Companion fair weaver, foliage pure gold to kill burning. Scrape out entirely of blood. Long live pure gold, broken hearted, fair at that time, mother. Burst forth then to sweep pure gold, burst open then mother put to silence. Close friend this pure gold, unites God premature baby, strength then deep sleep. Deep sleep elevate oneself, pure gold then rest. Alas she deep sleep.

Pessaries: Intense blow

House proper deep sleep, to make perfect, swiftly, proper secret. Deep sleep firepot pure gold. Strength pure gold secret of deep sleep, with regard to sweep pure gold rest. Broken hearted pure gold firepot caused to happen mama weaver. Keep alive secret, broken hearted to sweep rest in loot. Valley pure gold sweep up working of yaz-yaz* medicine mouth pure gold secret. Secret handful deep sleep, secret Lord poppy*. Friend split into pieces like Lord of loot, swiftly unripe fruit dust (seeds) of a handful secret to know, Lord unripe fruit then vomit at that time.

Pessaries: Restrictions

Research, compel then after miracle. Broken hearted premature baby heap, premature baby broken hearted pure gold to sweep here, secret. Lord premature baby cause to drop premature baby, relief then broken hearted here. Bridle fair of strength, pure gold wooden object, water courses to beset mother. Hated one fierce worm (umbilical cord) instant appearance. Exhausted premature baby broken hearted form. Joyful song thorn bush medicine vomit of be amazed. Crieth out to give birth, struggle together, and wear out mother of existence of premature baby. Rest firepot pure gold weakened, delivered in stronghold, that is. Young one basket hated one, weaver gird up mother, cleanness of proper Lord at that time.

 

 

*plant name

** second plant horn may have been used to puncture the sac and get the dew flowing
[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Upper plants are missing from the Voynich Manuscript and lower plants are 37v and 1v respectfully.
[/font]

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]page  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. they got a little mixed up while adding to photos, but let me know what you think[/font]

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. from Quire 19: 

Please remember these are the Hebrew word proper definitions, to give meaning to an unknown Semitic language, not proper syntax.

 Words with the plants:
Invigorated, Elul/August – September, to store and sheath, take hold of , to make and thresh of, rest stargazer, secret ascend, sweet laurel/ mountaineer, then draw out.

Paragraph translation:
She physical come on, let’s go loot joyful song thorn bush. Modest mother but flow shamed, therefore fair premature baby to make atonement for naught. Logically to remove, to be rooted out proper deep sleep. Long live premature baby laid bare, bridle _____ long live be exhausted fair weaver to flow. Shrouded at that time long live premature baby, force pure gold, rest, like long live god pedantic weaver, like long live my own premature baby. Gather blood, weary, burst forth then blood, soar upward mother scrape out bridle, broken hearted pure gold, secret god blood, then deep sleep, vomiting then fall ill. Tablespoon light loot rest, mouth easy to fly premature baby deep sleep, fair poppy fair premature baby his mouth fair then deep sleep. Healed wonderful secret fair poppy. ___ To fly premature baby Lord mouth emission poppy. This pure gold deep sleep trap, women’s section of the tent. Long live poppy long live to split, Lord oh to know pure gold my own god. ____ Blood fair premature baby long live premature baby god of long live fair unripe fruit, handful unripe fruit to sleep, then weaver my own pure gold god turned to joy. To sweep premature baby broken hearted hated one of basket. Fair mouth then to cry out. God blood strength premature baby, mire basket, liquid measure, mother fair then handful premature baby deep sleep, beautiful companion. ___ God fair then long live then, unites blood unites continually.

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Last one on this side of the 3. 

 Quire 19, Page 102r2:
Pessaries: Valiant mother Rx. Other 2 are unreadable
Drip, turn over in, lay claim, fair premature baby, Observe premature baby miracle mother, then honeycomb. People respect at that time mother, grandmother like fierce, then mother and companion. Deep sleep, Lord fair pure gold, than joyful song. Put on a bold face to breach a promise god shadow oath. Diseased sweep mouth mischief, fair of thine own however burst forth miracle to sweep proper moaning. Deep sleep to long for, broken hearted mouth rest/poppy foliage, then joyful song, my own lord of dust (seeds).
Nourish at that time mother coffin, to sweep premature baby. Clean gone pregnant stronghold to sweep mouth, you pure gold to sweep premature baby. Joyful song mother root stump of broken hearted pure gold. Toi know mouth of digging premature baby lord set free.  Oh please, secret parts of void whelp, to know shovel. Lord give thanks, your lord premature baby booty. Vomit premature baby secret, fair then behold mother, than vomit premature baby delivered. Look there, lord basket nursing infant of vomiting. Alas vomiting like overtaking secret than to sweep mouth rest/poppy, to fly. Secret vomit of life, then alas lord of heights premature baby, my own weaver in mother. Oh lord to fly weaver.
Long live united friend long live weaver. Long live at that time in to elevate oneself in the women’s section of the tent. This adorn bosom prescription, lord redeem broken hearted premature baby to heal in premature baby like elevate himself premature baby secret to be healed, to grow. Powerful to sweep premature baby, thy lord premature baby secret. To sweep premature baby secret exhausted premature baby like powerful deep sleep, come to pass. Henna blossom foliage to thresh dust embrace lord premature baby, darkish to thrive, broken hearted premature baby. Weaver relief _____. Elevate himself premature baby his mouth made strong fair god of hallow thresh, fair weaver a handful measure then fair of.
Bottom words:  Cause to flow basket valiant                       to gather husk scrape out.

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Page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
 The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. tree. This is a sacred tree in India where it is called Rudraksha for Shiva’s tears. The seed has been dried and used in prayer beads for over 4000 years. The blue marble tree has many You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. values and the bark is highly prized. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. system is Buttress with partially ringed bark. The blue apples of Rennes le Chateau as it relates to the feminine, purity, childbirth and mothers milk. Red letter word is found on page 102r plant name in the Voynich that looks like a block of blue at the top. The blue marble tree sometimes had its fruit crushed and made into a paste. 
 the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
Translation:
 Pure gold mouth, pure gold, this pure gold, this reverence atonement, long live. Valley then favored, sweep up cornerstone, strength to crush this gather honey miracle to hunt.  Desire to know The Blessed Holy One, inexhaustible tree, to heal myself of this affliction. Vision proper deep sleep, proper will see God now. Proper Lord watcher cut off of precious Lord splendor to feed on strength to know. Oh! At that time has made unripe fruit in to sweep little morsel, exists then friend subdue to scatter.  Observe brother fierce, to have value scratch through/with regard to like crave mouth in*, crave mouth in my own loot fierce of cavern, like crave mouth in, string of beads. Fresh to have value like long live, like a heap of rubble to sweep away this then press hard unripe fruit, exhaust oneself this fruitful, like skin. Behold to sweep pure gold like Ardon**, Alas! Highest place unripe fruit, handful unripe fruit Ardon morsel in shovel this Ardon. You Lord redeem, to sweep, to bring refuge bright.
*This word is found on page 102r (the only blue square looking item) fruit was smashed, added to water and made into a paste.
**Ardon goddess for females to give them ease in childbirth and abundant breast milk CORRECTED the Hebrew translated to Hunchback.
Zoroastrianism female ized (cherub) Ardouisur/Arduisher/Abaraja (Giver of living water)
Pursian  Ardibehist
Ardors in Paradise Lost
Ardisba & Ardoi used in the Aramaic incantation bowls

Shakespeare, "Weaving spiders, come not here, Hence, you long legged spinners, hence! Black beetles, approach not here, worm nor snail, do no offence". 
This quote now gives meaning to what the Voynich reveals with what is a weaver. This is the page just before the 9 rosette folio, and utilized magic and incantation to create a 'moss army' for intel, or a Golem like described in the 9 rosette. 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.: (i'll upload the workup in the morning, as I want to double check on another possible Canaanite name and Lord Papa is possibly a reference to Rabbi Papa from 300 a.d. to 375 a.d.)
Paragraph 1:
Redeem bring forth preserved straight proper handsome God. Highest proper handsome father’s name, brother to endow with splendor, bring forth worship shrine.
Vanity Lord father my own wisdom, long live the light straight. Burst forth splendor decree, handsome mouth of the Lord.
Within circle favorably after, heal mouth unripe fruit/premature baby, long live to endow with splendor. Hpbo (Aramaic term for reversing charms) to know be blunt fair unripe fruit Abatur (Ethiopic and Mandaic evil spirit concerned with judgement of souls).
Nun (primordial waters) name like Lord Father fair light God, Lord Papa (proper name). My own long live weaver in light basket.
See/observe appear in disguise, long live mirage, Lord mouth Lord long live weaver, my own God devise, bare rule, retrieve information my own God.
Chafa (canopy) proper mouth glorify name to heal father preserved mouth enter preserved glorify form Baal/Lord name.
Burst forth formed man to know moss army, adorn then.
Falcon preserved mouth God Vbdma (medium of familiar spirits, appear in disguise), streaming, fair aqueduct first rain of the season.
Baal/Lord Yaya (grandmother) long live the unripe fruit firepot branch, companion then to ripen of spirits/appear in disguise.
Grandmother long live father fair secret, long live splendor power.
Paragraph 2:
Mouth to know splendor preserved, bare rule to retrieve information, weary mouth devise then and retrieve information to know at that time the enemy.
Preserved to thicken in fair life, to dig out, retrieve information, brother fair then make known Lord of miscarriage.
Lord mouth unripe fruit to know weaver, power to beat down on someone’s head with weaver see appear in disguise.
Raphaim (ghosts of the dead) preserve long live unripe fruit branch then, fair Lord Pagans tread under foot.
Preserve father fair then fair father Lord Pg (unripe fruit/premature baby) worship shrine. Jar/container Lord mouth flow, burst forth small quantity, fair then fool then.

I started working on page 89r2, and I am going to post just the page with some of the worked up plant words, and only the first line and a half. Sorry I still haven't figured out how to get the picture on the thread so here are the incomplete You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. .
So far it seems to be a forbidden Rx for birthing a baby. 
Now forgive my ramblings
I realise a lot of you do not comment, or even like HOW i am translating, by not giving proper syntax and only using the most used definition of the Hebrew root word, but I would really like to hear from you, on your translation thoughts and WHY you personally think it doesn't work, not comparisons without clear content. 
This stems from my last post on Reddit when someone compared me to Cheshire. I do not use multiple languages. I utilize Biblical Hebrew and now have over 100 pages complete. The only places where Persian and Arabic came in is the previous post, 9 rosette, and the stars. 
So far over 300 Universities and Institutions worldwide have downloaded my translations, and worked with a few people in Israel and other places on content. 
I have and never had any interest in notoriety, or 30 second MSM soundbites with people who do not give a darn. I wanted to share with the actual people who have been researching and giving their heart to the Voynich for many years, and that is what i have tried to do for the last 2 years. If I am what someone called me on Reddit a "distraction" from your research? Then by all means tell me and I will not post here. Sorry for the rant
Here is the first line and a half:
"broken hearted fair weaver, to breach a promise secret. To betray, sprinkle this emissions to cover. I scattered goodly, secret like pure to sweep premature baby. Beautiful encounter then form premature baby. Like Lord premature baby, sprinkle rest companion wailing mother. My own *alchemical symbol for 'Lodestone' forever secret."

(02-01-2020, 11:21 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
This stems from my last post on Reddit when someone compared me to Cheshire. I do not use multiple languages. I utilize Biblical Hebrew and now have over 100 pages complete. 
...

I don't think the comparison to Cheshire is fair. His "method" is mostly subjective, and there's no such thing as "proto-Romance" in the 15th century.

Your method is consistent and can be replicated. My main concern about it (as I've mentioned in one of the early posts) is that there is still the problem of explaining the unorthodox letter frequency and position. These two aspects of the VMS text are not consistent with natural language texts in any language (including Semitic languages).

(02-01-2020, 11:34 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(02-01-2020, 11:21 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
This stems from my last post on Reddit when someone compared me to Cheshire. I do not use multiple languages. I utilize Biblical Hebrew and now have over 100 pages complete. 
...

I don't think the comparison to Cheshire is fair. His "method" is mostly subjective, and there's no such thing as "proto-Romance" in the 15th century.

Your method is consistent and can be replicated. My main concern about it (as I've mentioned in one of the early posts) is that there is still the problem of explaining the unorthodox letter frequency and position. These two aspects of the VMS text are not consistent with natural language texts in any language (including Semitic languages).

I agree. This is why I do not claim to know the exact Semitic language, as something is variant and I still have not discovered what or where it comes from. I could be their own version or a secret language, but I do keep searching for an answer. In the mean time, I just like to know what is in it. Thank you JKP

(02-01-2020, 11:34 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(02-01-2020, 11:21 PM)Monica Yokubinas Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view....
This stems from my last post on Reddit when someone compared me to Cheshire. I do not use multiple languages. I utilize Biblical Hebrew and now have over 100 pages complete. 
...

I don't think the comparison to Cheshire is fair. His "method" is mostly subjective, and there's no such thing as "proto-Romance" in the 15th century.

Your method is consistent and can be replicated. My main concern about it (as I've mentioned in one of the early posts) is that there is still the problem of explaining the unorthodox letter frequency and position. These two aspects of the VMS text are not consistent with natural language texts in any language (including Semitic languages).

Hi JKP,
I have already wasted several hours on this: it certainly wasn't smart of me, but now that I am accused of being unfair I feel I must somehow reply.

You make a few statements that I want to address:


1. Cheshirese ("proto-Romance") does not exist; you imply that Yokubinese exists

Some quotes from Yokubinas

Quote:it is written in a partial mirrored Hebrew script of ancient origins in an unknown Semitic language, similar to Aramaic

The vowels are already in the VM, I have to take most out when utilizing for Hebrew root words. Please remember, this is not the Hebrew language. I use Hebrew root words to get a small understanding of an unknown Semitic language.

This is also not the Hebrew language, but an agglutinative unknown one utilizing the Hebrew letters for magical purposes. My Theory is that is the lost language of the Khazars.

There are Turkic words in there as well as the Ardic family has shown.

My theory is it is the lost written language of the Khazars who were Turkic Jews, and they used an agglutinative language, so you have to take and phonetically find corresponding root words in Hebrew or Turkish to get an understanding of what was trying to be conveyed.

I believe it is a form of Turkic Hebrew, utilized by the Khazars. whose written language disappeared around the 14th century. You can utilize Hebrew phonetic root words to give meaning to an agglutinative language.

It is my theory that this is the 'Only" known writing of the Khazars or Turkic Jews. Their written language has been lost for centuries.

I do not know the language or structure, I can only pull out Hebrew root words. I can easily make up flowery speech

The process works for pulling out ROOT words, and their meaning, Not sentence structure of a language we have no idea what it is.

She clearly states that this is an extinct language that only survives in the Voynich manuscript. This is exactly what Cheshire says. We are dealing with fantasy languages loosely based on the lexicon of existing languages.

protoRomance:Yokubinese=Latin:Hebrew

2. The "method is consistent and can be replicated"

All steps in Monica's method require guessing, hence it cannot be replicated:

A. plant identification - as we know, it is largely impossible being certain of the identification of a Voynich plant, but Monica's guessing of word meaning depends on the analysis of the drawings (see B below). 
For instance, she identifies You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. as "Centaurea Akamantis". Th.Petersen thought it was "Pfeilkraut - sagittaria". Edith Sherwood says "Black Salsify or Viper’s grass (Scorzonera)". Different people identify plants differently.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. pointed out this problem when discussing Cheshire's approach: "As with most would-be Voynich interpreters, the logic of this proposal is circular and aspirational: he starts with a theory about what a particular series of glyphs might mean, usually because of the word's proximity to an image that he believes he can interpret."

B. mapping to root words - the mapping is not one-to-one, any Voynichese word can map into an unbounded number of Yokubinese words. For instance, the most frequent Voynichese word daiin can mean:
"Chief, chief place, chief things, head, beginnings, sum, tops, leader, Captain, height, behead, poison, Hemlock, venom..." [please note the ellipsis: the list is unbounded]

How do you choose? "I use "Chief", which is the most popular, when it is hard to 'guess' which other word was meant. 14r was easier as the plant causes severe contact dermatitis, but "poison, poison" could have also meant "chief poison" or "poison tops" take your pick. I try to keep it simple."
Different people will choose different alternatives.

C. splitting words. She writes: "All large words need to be broken down, if no word exists to gain an understanding of what might have been conveyed." There is no systematic rule to split words: you do that whenever you cannot find anything you like using the whole word. Different people will split words differently.

D. "make up flowery speech" - this is how she describes the process of turning the initial salad of English words into  something more or less meaningful. While Hebrew is inflected, nothing is known of he structure of Yokubinese: it does not seem to be inflected. As in most (all?) languages, much of the  meaning of Hebrew is conveyed by function words.
For instance, according to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., the ten most frequent words in the Hebrew bible are 9 function words + God:
[attachment=3825]

Please, compare these words with Monica's interpretation of the most frequent Voynichese word (point B). Is it unfair to reject this as arbitrary?
A word-salad from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (see large image): 
"interpretation beauty so despair poison poison violent-walk-of confident proper because-of to-say so itch"
The corresponding "flowery speech":
"Commentary: Beautiful but despair this poison, poison. Walking to fast and confident will give proper, that is to say terrible itching."

Is the final result coherent? Is it unfair to say that this is as good as what Cheshire gets? e.g. "to begin to forget the deceased, this is induction to a method of constraint. Overwhelmed women bathe to acquire god’s holy light"

She also writes:
"When deciphering, the language comes out garbled… so first we will use our English language skills to guess and create a more readable understanding of the words"
"Guessing" from "garbled language" cannot be done consistently, in particular when the language has no grammar. And this last step only adds to the arbitrariness of points A,B,C.


3. "My main concern about it is that there is still the problem of explaining the unorthodox letter frequency and position"

The fact that you are perfectly happy with the total absence of a grammar is puzzling. Is it unfair to think that grammar should play a role in a consistent translation? Lisa Fagin Davis observed that Gibb's work must be rejected because it is not grammatically correct. Monica's work is no better.

Anyway, the problem you mention can be easily solved by assuming a nomenclator (something like Rene's mod_2). You may conclude that Monica has discovered that this nomenclator is somehow mnemonic and a clever researcher may "consistently" guess the right word and retrieve the original "meaning" (which happens to be largely incoherent).