Maybe the scribe copied from the wrong line. Now it says "the name of the herb is around of the gardens" . So maybe this was supposed to be part of the "nascitur" line.
I wonder though if the cc abbrev may not have been meant to refer to a plant name that would have been recognized easily by the reader. Something so common it could be abbreviated to cc. Though I'm at a loss what it could be then.
(15-05-2017, 09:03 AM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Maybe the scribe copied from the wrong line. Now it says "the name of the herb is around of the gardens" . So maybe this was supposed to be part of the "nascitur" line.
I wonder though if the cc abbrev may not have been meant to refer to a plant name that would have been recognized easily by the reader. Something so common it could be abbreviated to cc. Though I'm at a loss what it could be then.
Yes, that might have happened, he started copying a second line, realized he had goofed, then went back and put in the names. Usually the habitat comes after the three names.
Circa is used in the general sense to mean near/similar. He also uses the word similar (especially in relation to leaves). I don't know if the same c'c abbreviation is occasionally used for something else (it's possible). If so, I'm not sure yet what it is. I haven't really had much time to look at this interesting manuscript (sadly), I've only glanced a few times, but it's pretty orderly and mostly follows a comprehensible template.
(14-05-2017, 09:11 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.How would you transcribe the first name of this plant? From fol. 75r.
You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. could be You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.
The synonyms are "friton" "cobdotos" "spinoaldus". I could make no use of the first two, but the last one could be a version of "spinus albus" masculine version of Spina Alba that appears in You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view. for Acantis Leuce i.e. You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view..
It does have a yellow (You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view.) flower as in the Trinity description. Also in this case, the Trinity illustration is useless. The text says that the leaves are like lettuce (lobed) but the illustration doesn't follow the description.
For the likely connection between this section of the Trinity ms and the Tractatus de Herbis, see You are not allowed to view links.
Register or
Login to view..
Thanks, Marco! It must indeed be Cnicus.
(15-05-2017, 10:38 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
75r bottom
could be You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
The synonyms are "friton" "cobdotos" "spinoaldus". I could make no use of the first two, but the last one could be a version of "spinus albus" masculine version of Spina Alba that appears in You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. for Acantis Leuce i.e. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
Spina alba (if that's what the scribe meant by spinoaldus) is sometimes meant to be
Eryngium spina-alba, which is a form of thistle that was also called Acantis (sometimes labeled Acantis arabica).
Cnicus is also a thistle, the one most often represented is "Our Lady's thistle"... Cnicus benedictus), sometimes called
Carduus marianus or C. benedictus.
I've noticed a lot of confusion about which thistle is which in discussions about medieval herbals in texts from the 18th and 19th centuries.
Quote:MarcoP
It does have a yellow (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.) flower as in the Trinity description. Also in this case, the Trinity illustration is useless. The text says that the leaves are like lettuce (lobed) but the illustration doesn't follow the description.
I completely agree, the Trinity illustration is pretty generic and the leaves don't resemble thistle, not helpful at all. Some lettuce plants do have thistle-like leaves (e.g., prickly lettuce called
Lactuca serriola) but the drawing doesn't resemble those either. I'm guessing the disconnect between text and drawing is because they weren't familiar with this particular plant and went by the written description.
I ran into a bit which I find very hard to comprehend. Does it contain another abbreviated author reference? I'm not sure.. f.84v
(16-05-2017, 02:15 PM)Koen Gh. Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I ran into a bit which I find very hard to comprehend. Does it contain another abbreviated author reference? I'm not sure.. f.84v
... alii gith sed non est | quod gith est alia herba per se quod secundum quosdam | vocatur ciminum ethiopicum.
some [call it] Gith, but it is not. Because Gith is another plant of its own which, according to some, is called Ciminum Ethiopicum.
I'm collecting some more Diascorides quotes. There's a small one on f.78v, but I'm not sure what it means
[
attachment=1393]
So I read something like: "Hac herba secundum Diascoride laudabil? inter alias herbas".
I'd translate it like "According to Diascorides this herb is to be praised among other herbs", but that sounds a bit weird. Is the "laudabil-" an abbreviated superlative form?
You are quite correct.
Haec herba secundum Diascoridem laudabilis est inter alias herbas.
The scratch after the laudabilis is an est abbr. and I think a good translation for laudabilis woud be praiseworthy
There's another large Diascorides quote on f.85v top. The name of the herb in the "nomen.." phrase is not visible due to damage, but I think it is anagallum, since this returns in the first sentence.
[
attachment=1396]
An attempt, expect mistakes
:
Certain authors confirm that anagallum is herba venti. Diascorides agrees with them and says that this herb (per se quod ita??) is called like that because its leaves are always moving like the trembling of leaves on a tree, and because in the wind they move and tremble. Therefore it is called herba venti instead of ??? anagallum.