The Voynich Ninja

Linda,


That image in post #26 is amazing. I was just thinking that the VMs artist has shown illustrations of rainbows and nebuly lines in wolkenbands in one manuscript, and here you have found them both on a single page. Of course there are certain differences. The rainbow is single, not double. And the pattern of the nebuly line used there is different from that in the VMs central rosette. The VMs uses an engrailed line along the furthest extension of the individual bulbs resulting in multiple small elevations and indentations, whereas the Edgerton example has a sort of head-and-shoulders shape with a single, larger, central elevation on each bulb. These are two alternative techniques by which plain nebuly lines can be embellished.

The Edgerton image is another example showing the rainbow as a divine 'vehicle', and the double rainbow has been shown as a place to sit with a footstool. If this religious use of the rainbow image is a common cultural practice at the time of VMs creation, what are we to make of the fact that the VMs rainbows are vacant?

i was looking up what red means in religion, and the answer turned out to be martyrdom. could this be an aspect of the upside-downness of the red in the rainbow? it is the part of the rainbow that touches the mountain or cloud, the front line, so to speak, of whatever is occurring. maybe the nymph is a mixing metaphor, a rainbow of religion. Could they be talking about ending the Schisms that existed at the time? the Council of Constance? Hussites? Generally the martyrs of the time were burned at the stake.

(10-12-2016, 08:04 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Linda,

...what are we to make of the fact that the VMs rainbows are vacant?

I think it's consistent with the humanist movement to remove the deity from the vehicle. Maybe that's why Temperence is there with the red rainbow, she's the designated driver, but with the ancient Greek concept of an ideal of excellence of character and soundness of mind, which when combined in one well-balanced individual leads to other qualities, such as temperance, moderation, prudence, purity, and self-control

If you remove the deities completely from the rainbows, the red (martyrdom) also gets removed and then they're just peaceful rainbows that nobody needs to ride. Or possibly we are looking at them with rose coloured glasses so we can't see the red, but that can be debated peacefully.

Maybe it's a hint at the movement to which our scribe belongs?

(11-12-2016, 01:15 AM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(10-12-2016, 08:04 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Linda,

...what are we to make of the fact that the VMs rainbows are vacant?

I think it's consistent with the humanist movement to remove the deity from the vehicle.... [deleted for brevity]

Maybe it's a hint at the movement to which our scribe belongs?

I keep going back and forth between wondering if it's humanist or Pagan. The nymphs and all the water certainly smack of Paganism.

Of note is the Ghibelline merlons on the rosettes page. If they are not intended as landmarks, then they may symbolically represent the anti-papists (those in support of the Holy Roman empire or those who were simply against he power of the Pope or perhaps religion in general). The Guelphs supported the Pope.

(11-12-2016, 03:40 AM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I keep going back and forth between wondering if it's humanist or Pagan. The nymphs and all the water certainly smack of Paganism.

Of note is the Ghibelline merlons on the rosettes page. If they are not intended as landmarks, then they may symbolically represent the anti-papists (those in support of the Holy Roman empire or those who were simply against he power of the Pope or perhaps religion in general). The Guelphs supported the Pope.

on the humanist side of things, there is You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., had a disdain for popes and princes, time could be better spent gaining knowledge. but he did travel and had access to old manuscripts and first hand info, might have been known to our scribe(s) at least by reputation.

I'm always cautious when comparing various sections. For example, the rosettes foldout clearly contains elements that point to Medieval Europe as a subject matter. These are integrated into the wider picture to such an extent that they cannot be mere copyist errors or minor additions. They are an informed part of the image.

The same can be said about the Zodiac section central figures, though this is such an complex amalgam of influences that it's hard to say much with certainty about it.

Looking at Q13 and the plants sections though, I see very little that points to medieval Europe. I do see many images of such antiquity and authenticity, that I'm certain a 15th century person would not have been able to understand them without the help of a text.

JKP - taking all the above into account, I would definitely opt for the humanist story when given those two options. Those scholars salvaged what they could from old libraries, so who knows what they found there and how they combined it. If at least this one was interested in genuinely preserving ancient documents, and could have done so without inserting too many christian elements, I don't see any objection against this hypothesis.

Linda:

Quote:Maybe that's why Temperence is there with the red rainbow, she's the designated driver, but with the ancient Greek concept of an ideal of excellence of character and soundness of mind, which when combined in one well-balanced individual leads to other qualities, such as temperance, moderation, prudence, purity, and self-control.

Initially, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. implied a woman, which mixes water with wine, as an image of temperance (moderation). It is notable that the rainbow appeared much later (beginning of 20 c.) 

(11-12-2016, 11:35 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Initially, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. implied a woman, which mixes water with wine, as an image of temperance (moderation). It is notable that the rainbow appeared much later (beginning of 20 c.) 

I was sort of mixing metaphors in what I was saying. I was using the meaning of Temperence that goes with Sophrosyne, but the rainbow as the one which gets ridden by gods, rather than the one from the cards

My how this thread has split into filaments. As far as rainbows, is it possible to open a wing of the Ninja Art Library based on a particular topic (e.g. rainbows), in addition to those based on specific sources? If individual images could be arranged chronologically then, with enough examples, variations could be examined and differences, changes and possible trends could be investigated.

Even though additional expansion of evidence could be helpful, it is only natural to extrapolate the initial data and look in the most likely places first. First there is the matching of appearance and then there is the matching of interpretation. Surely someone can recall , better than I can, the name of the system of sympathetic associations of colors, metals, planets, gems and qualities of personality that arose in the Middle Ages in Italy, If there is investigation of the actual structure and colors of particular examples, then the interpretation of the choice of color needs to comply with an existent system of interpretation in order to be properly understood - if a system of some sort can be applied to rainbows.

The vacancy at the VMs double rainbow is another matter for further consideration. Religious use of the double rainbow seems more predominant than for single rainbows. Does the unoccupied rainbow make the VMs artist a pagan or an anti-papist of the Holy Roman Empire? Why not a budding scientific naturalist who, perhaps, can see the rainbows as a natural occurrence? Can the artist's proposed political predilections be determined by swallowtailed merlons and empty double rainbows without taking into account VMs White Aries and the tradition of the red galero?

(11-12-2016, 06:14 PM)Linda Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

(11-12-2016, 11:35 AM)Searcher Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Initially, You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. implied a woman, which mixes water with wine, as an image of temperance (moderation). It is notable that the rainbow appeared much later (beginning of 20 c.) 

I was sort of mixing metaphors in what I was saying. I was using the meaning of Temperence that goes with Sophrosyne, but the rainbow as the one which gets ridden by gods, rather than the one from the cards

O, Linda, I understand! I'm just amazed at that late Tarot card, which could be so good candidate for the VMs illustration! Of course, it is not necessary to be a Tarot card, but quite to be the Temperance, as virtue in classical iconography. Why not: water - blue, wine - red?