Sam G > 03-11-2016, 04:30 PM
(02-11-2016, 08:00 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The method is simply that standard heraldic patterns can name more of the examples found in the VMs tub patterns than any other set of traditional patterns. And this is the basis for further investigations based on heraldry, such as the possibility of historical identification.
Quote:In my view, armorial heraldry is limited to the patterned tubs which are only found on the first three VMs Zodiac pages. Ecclesiastical heraldry, red galeros, to designate the rank of cardinal, and white galeros, which identify the order of Premonstratensians, is limited to f71r.
Quote:The 'pape-papelonny thing' is only one of several objective, positional confirmations of the Fieschi identification. It does seem to possess some additional significance, as it would be rather difficult to create such a pun accidentally. The purpose of this papal identification is to amplify the significance of these patterned markers found in the circular bands of text, with the view that these marked text segments would play an important (but as yet undetermined) role in making sense of the text overall.
Quote:I do not disagree that the image of the particular figure is much like you describe. My question is how can we have unqualified faith in the representation supplied by the VMs painter? The general suggestion is that the VMs painter is sloppy and does not know what's what. To create the given image, the VMs painter needs to know exactly what to do unprompted by any clues from the ink drawing. And the painter is using an atypical technique that requires a level of skill well beyond that of the ink outlines.
I would say that the ink drawing presents a figure that is probably male, while the painted addition presents an altered figure that is more problematic. However to label this figure as unquestionably female, fails to answer these questions. Why should it be, in this singular instance, that the sloppy VMs painter has suddenly attained the heights of technical precision? Why should it be, in this particular instance, that the uninformed VMs painter knows exactly what to do?
R. Sale > 03-11-2016, 09:55 PM
Koen G > 03-11-2016, 11:31 PM
Witch Mountain > 04-11-2016, 02:12 AM
(03-11-2016, 09:55 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Diane & W. M.,
So the question is, why heraldry? One of the first things I read about the VMs was the Goldstones’ book “The Friar and the Cipher”. And while the Carbon-14 tests have eliminated any possible direct connection, the two parts the book were still interesting separately. Although some of the VMs portion would now be outdated, the other part about the Friar, a biography of Roger Bacon, was something I found interesting on its own.
I did some additional reading about Roger Bacon and other persons mentioned in the biography, one of whom was Ottobuono Fiesch, later elected Pope Adrian V. At one site online, I found a list of 13th Century popes, with brief biographies and illustrations of their armorial insignia. The Fieschi insignia is a diagonal pattern of alternating blue and white stripes, described by the blazon: bendy, argent et azur. There was also another pope, Innocent IV (Sinibaldo Fieschi), earlier in that century with the same familial coat of arms, along with a couple other examples of popes with a common familial insignia.
Having found a pairing of the Fieschi insignia in the historical record and returning to the Goldstones’ book, it was a surprise to find the two blue-striped tub patterns on the final color plate in the book, which was f71r, White Aries. Further biographical reading revealed that Sinibaldo and Ottobuona were uncle and nephew. That in 1251, as Pope Innocent IV, Sinibaldo made his nephew a cardinal. And that, earlier in his reign, Pope Innocent had granted the red galero to the cardinals as a sign of their office, a heraldic symbol, and this, of course, remains an ongoing tradition.
Further investigation of the White Aries illustration, shows that the figure associated with the blue-striped pattern in the inner circle also has something, a hat, on its head that appears to be a red galero. So, in a rough way (depending on orientation etc.), with two blue-striped insignia and a red hat, this is potentially an illustration of the event that occurred in 1251. And as soon as it is clear which of the blue-striped insignia belongs to the pope and which to the cardinal (because or the red galero), then it is also clear, in the celestial spheres of the White Aries illustration, that pope and cardinal are in the correct hierarchical positions in the spheres. Furthermore, it is clear that such positioning is an objective fact and not a subjective interpretation. And the illustration then provides further examples of positional confirmation of this identification through the use of favored heraldic placement, the unique celestial association with White Aries and celestial sacrifice, and the corresponding placement, in quadrant and in sphere of the papelonny patterns on the two pages preceding f71r.
Given the complexity, coordination and historical connections involved in these illustrations, I cannot accept that they are the result of an accidental concatenation of circumstance. I see this as an intentional construction. And one which was deemed to be too obvious to presented without certain steps toward obfuscation, foremost of which are the two possible determinations of orientation for the blue stripes, (either radial or not radial) in the first place. An optical illusion disguises the valid historical interpretation. Deception is intentional; identification is disguised, but not contradicted.
As to other heraldic patterns, in the outer ring of Pisces , a pattern of alternating vertical stripes corresponds to a paly, horizontal bands correspond to a barry. There is a bend sinister and a pattern with chevrons, multiple small circles are suggestive of a semy of roundels. Even 'plain' is a valid heraldic option (all blue on f71r). Of course, the individual investigators need to make their own determination as to whether they demand that the VMs illustrations present picture perfect accuracy, or whether an idea suggested is sufficient. If there were but a single instance, the interpretation would be more ambiguous. However, given the multiple examples in a concentrated location, I believe this could only have been done by someone who knew what s/he was doing.
R. Sale > 04-11-2016, 08:35 PM
Diane > 05-11-2016, 03:29 AM
R. Sale > 05-11-2016, 07:52 PM
Koen G > 05-11-2016, 09:31 PM
R. Sale > 05-11-2016, 10:39 PM
R. Sale > 06-11-2016, 12:18 AM