Torsten > 16-01-2018, 08:40 AM
(15-01-2018, 10:06 AM)Helmut Winkler Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The real joke of the story is that Beinecke 408 probably IS a Latin text, but these brute force - methods with word lists or the statitstics approach of the cryptographers obviously don't work, there must be is another trick behind it all.
farmerjohn > 14-06-2018, 02:47 PM
farmerjohn > 21-07-2018, 12:38 PM
MarcoP > 21-07-2018, 02:20 PM
(21-07-2018, 12:38 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.daiin - illī (that), also probably alī (leaf)
(21-07-2018, 12:38 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.shedy - partellus (part, piece of text)
farmerjohn > 21-07-2018, 10:24 PM
(21-07-2018, 02:20 PM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I agree on the usefulness of the test proposed by Rene!
(21-07-2018, 12:38 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.daiin - illī (that), also probably alī (leaf)
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. is Nominative, masculine, plural (and Dative singular)
"ille" and "illa" (Masculine and Feminine nominative singular) should be at least as frequent. How do you think they appear in the VMS?
(21-07-2018, 12:38 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.shedy - partellus (part, piece of text)
"partellus" is a word I had never heard of. Most of the pages returned by google appear to refer to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., a moth described and named at the end of the XIX Century. How many occurrences of "partellus" have you seen in medieval or classical Latin? Since shedy occurs more than 400 times in the VMS, if you cannot find an actual Latin text with at least 100 occurrences, you could consider picking a different word.
This is a list of words that are more frequent than "illi" (based on a small set of Latin texts):
-JKP- > 21-07-2018, 10:37 PM
Quote:farmerjohn: I don't think VMS is written Classical Latin or classical Medieval Latin, and there is no need to kick at open door and compare them directly. Rather VMS is written in some form which mixes traits of Medieval, Vulgar and spoken Latin with artificial endings invented by the author.
farmerjohn > 21-07-2018, 10:53 PM
(21-07-2018, 10:37 PM)-JKP- Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quote:farmerjohn: I don't think VMS is written Classical Latin or classical Medieval Latin, and there is no need to kick at open door and compare them directly. Rather VMS is written in some form which mixes traits of Medieval, Vulgar and spoken Latin with artificial endings invented by the author.
In Latin, the endings are everything. They tell you who did what to whom. The endings in Latin are more critical than languages that have small joining words in between to substitute for the endings.
To invent a different system of endings would be difficult, and in the end, they would have to be conceptually similar to real Latin for it to make sense... which means it doesn't matter which "cipher" characters you use to express them, the interpretation would come out the same whether they were real Latin endings or invented "Latinesque" endings.
Which means... either the meaning would be distorted by invented endings (if they do not follow the same conventions as Latin), or it's not Latin.
Wladimir D > 22-07-2018, 03:29 AM
MarcoP > 22-07-2018, 12:51 PM
(21-07-2018, 10:24 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't think VMS is written Classical Latin or classical Medieval Latin, and there is no need to kick at open door and compare them directly. Rather VMS is written in some form which mixes traits of Medieval, Vulgar and spoken Latin with artificial endings invented by the author.
Quote:The worst case (also not rare) is when a theory is used to decide which evidence is reliable, and which is not.A gaping abyss rather than "an open door", in my opinion.
(21-07-2018, 10:24 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck I’ll call it a duck