farmerjohn > 13-11-2020, 02:13 PM
(13-11-2020, 12:39 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@farmerjohn, nothing personal, but I disagree.
Quote:MarcoP, I completely disagree with that. Moreover, I believe that this sort of thinking prevents VMS from being decoded. But that is just a personal opinion, nothing more.I would say that this sort of thinking prevents that incorrect VMS decodings can be accepted.
The discussion is often between people who know a great deal about a certain subject, and people who know less or little.
(Note that this is not just true for Voynich MS discussions).
(13-11-2020, 12:39 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A proposed translation in Latin, Hebrew, Nahuatl or any other language can only be judged properly by people who are intimately familiar with these languages.This is absolutely true.
(13-11-2020, 12:39 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Not by someone relying on Google Translate.If you mean me, I don't use GT for Latin. You can clearly see it in my instruments available on Android or iPhone.
MarcoP > 14-11-2020, 08:40 AM
(13-11-2020, 09:23 AM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.A general question is how would you evaluate a solution based on constructed language? What would be the technique there?
Bowern and Lindemann Wrote:To our knowledge, the most extensive pre-modern conlang is the Turkish, Persian and Arabic-based language Balaibalan (Haeberl, 2015; Koc, 2005). Balaibalan was a Sufi esoteric language, represented in 3 manuscripts dating from roughly 1580 but likely a collective effort at composition over many years. There are two other well attested ancient conlangs, Latin and German-based Lingua Ignota, created by Hildegard von Bingen (Higley, 2007) in the 12th Century, and Enochian, an “angelic” English like language invented in the 16th Century by Edward Kelly and John Dee (Laycock, 2001). All three conlangs are heavily based on natural languages and consist of embedding made-up roots in the morphology and syntax of natural languages. Thus if Voynichese is a conlang, we might expect it to pattern morphosyntactically with other natural languages, but be anomalous at the root level.
farmerjohn > 14-11-2020, 12:21 PM
(14-11-2020, 08:40 AM)MarcoP Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.So, I would check grammatical consistency according to the rules described by the solver.
Ruby Novacna > 14-11-2020, 07:36 PM
(27-10-2020, 04:17 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.New version of the workFarmerJohn!
farmerjohn > 14-11-2020, 10:20 PM
(14-11-2020, 07:36 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I reread the whole thread, opened the 13 (!) files and my first question is why not publish on a blog like everyone else?Ruby Novacna, you are a real hero. I don't recommend reading previous versions, except maybe the first one which contains some stats. I tried to have blog, but writing blogs should be regular and I'm not able to keep the rate.
(14-11-2020, 07:36 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.My second question is why with your key you can't read all the text, but only some extracts?The nature of my key (almost without vowels) implies certain ambiguity and extreme sensitivity (that is tiny changes in key mean big changes in translations). So trying to decode one given piece of text to infinity is counterproductive - for example it may contain proper nouns which are not present in dictionary and so you are stuck. In the beginning it is much more efficient to find chunks which are easier to decode and then try to decode chunks with similar words.
(14-11-2020, 07:36 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also wanted to ask a question about shedy = partellus, but I saw that it was already asked and I didn't understand your answer, why does your reading produce non-existent words?I don't remember my answer, and your question is too general so here is my current understanding:
(14-11-2020, 07:36 PM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Your reading of the label on page 84r "okar ydairol ychckhy dshedy", was of particular interest to me, because I also made a suggestion for its reading. I found two variants in your documents: "boetharius iconellorum concreatorus leporatilis", translated as "Assistant of scribe created witty images" and "Edare scholiorum strıdorus lıbertellus", translated as "Created note free of hissing sounds".The reason is simple: the key is ambiguous and very sensitive. One of the ways to fight with that is to find word meanings which fit all occurences.
What is the reason for this change of interpretation?
Ruby Novacna > 15-11-2020, 08:09 AM
(14-11-2020, 10:20 PM)farmerjohn Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.The reason is simple: the key is ambiguous and very sensitive.FarmerJohn !
farmerjohn > 15-11-2020, 12:03 PM
(15-11-2020, 08:09 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If you recognize that your key is ambiguous, just change it; after all it was you who determined it.It doesn't work that way. The key may be changed only if it's incorrect, not if it's ambiguous.
(15-11-2020, 08:09 AM)Ruby Novacna Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I couldn't find a dictionary that would translate the word partus as part. I use Gaffiot or Olivetti (also available in English) which gives the list of existing Latin words, which is very advantageous for a beginner like me.I'm very frivolous with noun endings, especially with 3rd declension nouns
Stephen Carlson > 16-11-2020, 01:15 AM
farmerjohn > 16-11-2020, 11:22 AM
(16-11-2020, 01:15 AM)Stephen Carlson Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Yeah... but when you're dealing with an inflected language like Latin, those endings are the whole ballgame.If I understand correctly there are several "dialects" of Latin with intermediate variants.
davidjackson > 29-11-2020, 08:29 AM