Davidsch > 19-08-2016, 11:19 AM
nickpelling > 19-08-2016, 03:39 PM
(19-08-2016, 10:47 AM)Sam G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Okay. Well, on that subject then, what I question is whether there is really a valid concept in the "wider definition of cipher" that is not already included in some other category. It seems to me that you have two basic options that are compatible with the properties of the VMS text:
1) Essentially unencrypted language of some kind, whether of the "code book"/artificial language variety, or the unknown natural language variety.
2) Extremely verbose cipher with some kind of scrambling/transposition applied, or complete gibberish with a message hidden using steganography. In these two cases the plaintext would have to be much shorter than the VMS text, and the labels would have to be meaningless.
I don't think there's anything else that can be concretely described that can't be ruled out.
Diane > 19-08-2016, 04:22 PM
Anton > 19-08-2016, 04:45 PM
Quote:Removed from context, it's easy to see this as a blanket statement that the VMS could not be a "plaintext" in any language. But from context it's pretty clear that he was mainly trying to make a point that it could not a be a simple substitution cipher presumably of a European language. The idea that the VMS could be written in some kind of very unusual (from the European point of view) natural language is not a possibility that he addressed one way or the other in this paper.
Quote:I think we all agree on the text being "something special". Whatever it is, or not. How can we solve it, together. How do we get a rocket to the moon?
R. Sale > 19-08-2016, 08:38 PM
nickpelling > 19-08-2016, 08:47 PM
-JKP- > 20-08-2016, 01:35 AM
(19-08-2016, 08:38 PM)R. Sale Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[deleted for brevity]
It works like this. Suppose we have a stadium full of people and we ask a question. Will everyone who is not a twin please leave? And everyone complies with the protocol. The number of those remaining will be greatly reduced. It also works in the VMs. Anyone can recognize VMs Pisces as a pair of fish. And rather than being a clever paradigm that is too complex to implement, the pairing paradigm is so simple and obvious at the beginning that it basically fails to register among those investigators who seem to feel that this complex problem requires complex solutions.
Make the paradigm shift. Institute the pairing paradigm. Follow where it leads: example after example after example. All concentrated in the first five houses of the VMs Zodiac. Then look back and ask how it is that this pathway exists in the VMs? Perhaps a better understanding can be gained by following a simple path that the Vms author provides.
Anton > 20-08-2016, 12:00 PM
Quote:Instead of Pisces, Cancer might be a better example. A pair of fish is traditional. A pair of crayfish/lobsters is not.
Davidsch > 20-08-2016, 02:36 PM
davidjackson > 20-08-2016, 04:19 PM
Quote: Diane said:
That is why a specialist in western Christian art, presented with a figure of that sort, might consider the range of forms known to them within their own field of specialization, and identify the figure as "St.Michael" because they know nothing else that is similar in medieval Christian art. And they would be mistaken; the piece might be Lucanian Greek of the 5thC BC, a precursor of Michael, but no Christian saint.