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• RE: Alchemy Theory

  bi3mw > 30-09-2026, 01:42 PM

  (30-09-2026, 04:03 AM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think we have gone about as far as we can go with the illustrations.  People are going to see what they see.  I'm not sure that there is much more to be learned from additional examination of the materials, either. 

  
  
  I don't think we've exhausted the analysis of the illustrations yet. For example, the extraction of substances is depicted very clearly You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  pjburkshire > 30-09-2026, 01:57 PM

  (30-09-2026, 01:42 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  

  (30-09-2026, 04:03 AM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  I think we have gone about as far as we can go with the illustrations.  People are going to see what they see.  I'm not sure that there is much more to be learned from additional examination of the materials, either. 
  

  
  
  
  I don't think we've exhausted the analysis of the illustrations yet. For example, the extraction of substances is depicted very clearly You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
  

  
  
  You see alchemy.  I see biology.  There is nothing that you can say to convince me that it is alchemy and not biology.  You see what you see.  I see what I see.  We need to understand the text to resolve this debate about the illustrations.
  
  I just want to see it solved.  I don't care who solves it.  I don't care what the language turns out to be.  I just want to see it solved.

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  BessAgritianin > 30-09-2026, 06:19 PM

  (30-09-2026, 01:57 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (30-09-2026, 01:42 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  

  (30-09-2026, 04:03 AM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  I think we have gone about as far as we can go with the illustrations.  People are going to see what they see.  I'm not sure that there is much more to be learned from additional examination of the materials, either. 
  

  
  
  
  I don't think we've exhausted the analysis of the illustrations yet. For example, the extraction of substances is depicted very clearly You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
  

  
  
  You see alchemy.  I see biology.  There is nothing that you can say to convince me that it is alchemy and not biology.  You see what you see.  I see what I see.  We need to understand the text to resolve this debate about the illustrations.
  
  I just want to see it solved.  I don't care who solves it.  I don't care what the language turns out to be.  I just want to see it solved.

  
  I agree with you - the text is the key.
  I have been working on the text for some time and I have been working on it for quite some time. 
  I have a translation of f1r. I(t was in Bulgarian language, since I am a Bulgarian and I was searching for a herbalist to help me with the plants identification) 
  (publication 2017).
  I have translations portions of f2r, 14v, 9v, 9r, etc. 
  From what I certainly can state, that the text I have been looking into is Moravian or Bohemic dialect of old Czech language.
  
  
  The author is: Jamal (f1r). I think he is  an Indian healer (published from me in 2017 in Bg Herbal on line).
   Now Jamal could have been the author's name or could have been the term of being from Jamu and Kashmir  or could have been the jamal- the healer. I cannot know.
   I have some portional translations from the pages discussed here- the nakid women. And there I read Alchemy processes.
  
  
  Now for all of the above I may be wrong ( as many researchers before me), but I am due to tell you my discoveries, so that someone else may continue.
  Also there is another very interesting point I do discovere while translating: The author is tricky- You may see different meanings in his expressions. It has to do with magic art I think. There is double meaning in some tings. As you can see biology and me- alchemy- both can be true.

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  pjburkshire > 30-09-2026, 06:26 PM

  (30-09-2026, 06:19 PM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  I agree with you - the text is the key.
  I have been working on the text for some time and I have been working on it for quite some time. 
  I have a translation of f1r. I(t was in Bulgarian language, since I am a Bulgarian and I was searching for a herbalist to help me with the plants identification) 
  (publication 2017).
  I have translations portions of f2r, 14v, 9v, 9r, etc. 
  From what I certainly can state, that the text I have been looking into is Moravian or Bohemic dialect of old Czech language.
  

  
  
  Is there any chance that you can contact someone in the Linguistics Department at a local university to help with translation?

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  Hasnain Raza Rajpar al-Sindi > 30-09-2026, 08:49 PM

  (30-09-2026, 06:19 PM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (30-09-2026, 01:57 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (30-09-2026, 01:42 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  

  (30-09-2026, 04:03 AM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  I think we have gone about as far as we can go with the illustrations.  People are going to see what they see.  I'm not sure that there is much more to be learned from additional examination of the materials, either. 
  

  
  
  
  I don't think we've exhausted the analysis of the illustrations yet. For example, the extraction of substances is depicted very clearly You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..
  

  
  
  You see alchemy.  I see biology.  There is nothing that you can say to convince me that it is alchemy and not biology.  You see what you see.  I see what I see.  We need to understand the text to resolve this debate about the illustrations.
  
  I just want to see it solved.  I don't care who solves it.  I don't care what the language turns out to be.  I just want to see it solved.

  
  I agree with you - the text is the key.
  I have been working on the text for some time and I have been working on it for quite some time. 
  I have a translation of f1r. I(t was in Bulgarian language, since I am a Bulgarian and I was searching for a herbalist to help me with the plants identification) 
  (publication 2017).
  I have translations portions of f2r, 14v, 9v, 9r, etc. 
  From what I certainly can state, that the text I have been looking into is Moravian or Bohemic dialect of old Czech language.
  
  
  The author is: Jamal (f1r). I think he is  an Indian healer (published from me in 2017 in Bg Herbal on line).
   Now Jamal could have been the author's name or could have been the term of being from Jamu and Kashmir  or could have been the jamal- the healer. I cannot know.
   I have some portional translations from the pages discussed here- the nakid women. And there I read Alchemy processes.
  
  
  Now for all of the above I may be wrong ( as many researchers before me), but I am due to tell you my discoveries, so that someone else may continue.
  Also there is another very interesting point I do discovere while translating: The author is tricky- You may see different meanings in his expressions. It has to do with magic art I think. There is double meaning in some tings. As you can see biology and me- alchemy- both can be true.

  
  Jamal is a Arabic word, common for Muslim names. Jamal has never really been used as a singular name (up until the modern era). It has always been paired with something else, because it is a laqab (title). So, for example, Jamal ud-Din.
  
  The term for being from Jammu and Kashmir would be Kashi, or Kashmiri. This is the nisbah (attributive name) in Muslim cultures. A person from India would be 'Hindi', from Sindh would be 'Sindi', from Karbala would be 'Karbalai', etc.
  
  A healer in Islamicate culture is called a 'hakim'. We still have many hakims here in Sindh, they are usually Islamic scholars as well.
  
  Interesting stuff. Could you link your study/article that you published?

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  Mauro > 30-09-2026, 09:15 PM

  (24-09-2026, 01:07 PM)Maks1 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I managed to find an image like this....

  
  You see @Maks1, the problem with this kind of approach, comparing images with vague criteria, is that if you believe it's alchemy you're going to see alchemical instruments, but someone who believes it's biology will see body parts: the very same image in your quoted post was compared to a penis+scrotum and to a hyoid bone + tongue (this last one by me, not because I believe it, rather to show how it's easy to 'interpret' an image in any direction one wishes), while someone thinking the VMS is the Book of Enoch will see scenes from the Book of Enoch (there's a thread by @Radim Dobes with really cool illustrations), and so on. It's a most unreliable method.

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  BessAgritianin > 01-10-2026, 03:45 AM

  (30-09-2026, 06:26 PM)pjburkshire Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is there any chance that you can contact someone in the Linguistics Department at a local university to help with translation?

   Oh yes- I have contacted the Slavistic Department of Sofia University; Praha University -Dr. Alena Černá- whose work on old Czech medical terminology is directly relevant to my research;  Lisa Fagin Davis with a proposal to send her my translation of f116v.
  None of them replied.
   I am an independant researcher with no institutional affiliation. When such researchers write to a professor out of the blue- the email remains unanswered. 
  Such is the reality of academic life.
  Nevertheless, I am writing this without any bitterness. I have published some of my works in Academia.edu, created  an on line page also.
   So I continue the work myself, when I have time. The problem is that I understand parts from here and there, but not everything. 
  It is not the language which is difficult, but the opaqueness of the coded writing:
          Double meaning in the expressions;
          abrevations and ligatures;
          letters that can be read in multiple ways- ( n/d/r) ,P as P, Pr, F; etc; 
          a mixture of Latin, German and Slavic terms.

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  BessAgritianin > 01-10-2026, 04:04 AM

  (30-09-2026, 08:49 PM)Hasnain Raza Rajpar al-Sindi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Jamal is a Arabic word, common for Muslim names. Jamal has never really been used as a singular name (up until the modern era). It has always been paired with something else, because it is a laqab (title). So, for example, Jamal ud-Din.
  
  The term for being from Jammu and Kashmir would be Kashi, or Kashmiri. This is the nisbah (attributive name) in Muslim cultures. A person from India would be 'Hindi', from Sindh would be 'Sindi', from Karbala would be 'Karbalai', etc.
  
  A healer in Islamicate culture is called a 'hakim'. We still have many hakims here in Sindh, they are usually Islamic scholars as well.
  
  Interesting stuff. Could you link your study/article that you published?

  
  Thank You for your interest, unfortunately the original article I have published in 2017 is not  available any more on line . The Bulgarian herbal webpage, where it appeared had compiled its material into books and now tries to sell them on line. I am not sure in which of the books is my material, but they look now so:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
  However I will publish in English the content of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in a separate thread in this forum. I want the information to be available to anyone who is interested.
  I welcome your thoughts especially on Hindu and Arabic elements.

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  BessAgritianin > 01-10-2026, 04:27 AM

  (30-09-2026, 08:49 PM)Hasnain Raza Rajpar al-Sindi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Interesting stuff. Could you link your study/article that you published?

  
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Alchemy Theory

  Oscroft > 01-10-2026, 07:18 AM

  (01-10-2026, 03:45 AM)BessAgritianin Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have contacted the Slavistic Department of Sofia University; Praha University -Dr. Alena Černá- whose work on old Czech medical terminology is directly relevant to my research;  Lisa Fagin Davis with a proposal to send her my translation of f116v.
  None of them replied.

  
  I doubt either of your approaches was likely to actually reach the intended recipient - very possibly rejected by a secretary/assistant/etc and not passed on. And I could understand why.
  
  I don't know about Dr. Černá, but I suspect Lisa Fagin Davis's inbox would be filled with "I solved it" claims and all sorts of crank theories without some sort of filtering mechanism.
  
  I see you've started a discussion here on your theory, and that's a good way to present it and get feedback. Hopefully you'll expand there on your methodology and reveal your translation/decryption key?
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