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Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
- Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
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RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
pfeaster > 05-03-2023, 02:56 PM
(04-03-2023, 11:52 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When I carried out such a search, I could not find any academic article about the fact that the same authors could always write the prefixes separately and together, and this is a common situation in European manuscripts. For this reason, I would appreciate if anyone came across a separate academic article on how this detail was handled in the old written texts of European languages, and if they would share this source with me.
I'm not sure anyone will have considered this issue significant enough to warrant writing a whole academic article specifically about it. If it has been written about anywhere, I suspect it would be in a practical guide to transcribing handwritten sources in individual languages (such as Middle French). -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
cvetkakocj@rogers.com > 05-03-2023, 08:59 PM
Hi, Ahmet,
arguing whether the VM has prefixes or not, or whether prefixes can be written separately or together will not give your theory more credibility. Look at the VM text and suggest your explanation for the grammatical pattern that linguists, non-linguists, and even computers, can recognize as prefixes. You can replace VM glyphs with any letters you want, EVA, ATA or whatever, the pattern is still the same. It is not related to the pictures, but to the grammatical structure of the language.
You cannot claim to solve the VM language if you have no explanation for this grammatical pattern. Explaining this is essential because of the large number of pre-fixed words. If you don't believe this pattern is created by prefixes, you can offer your explanation.
I have collected some of the VM words and the number of their occurrences that clearly show the pattern of prefixes EVA o-, and qo-. This pattern has been recognized by many VM researchers as a proof of the existence of prefixes. If you think thy are not prefixes, let us know your explanation. By the way, it was your son who claimed in the second video that Turkish language has no prefixes.
If you are asking for cooperation, I would be more than willing to offer you my explanation and translation of all the words on the list, if you can do the same. It would be interesting to compare.
Sincerely,
Cvetka -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
Ahmet Ardıç > 05-03-2023, 11:36 PM
(05-03-2023, 05:58 AM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(05-03-2023, 01:33 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Often you can see that the letter "8/d" does not belong to the actual word. This changes from word to word.
As already described, French uses the apostrophe. Whether "de terre" or "d'terre" is irrelevant. It is written out once and shortened once.
We do the same, but rarely use an apostrophe.
Look carefully. It's not always what it looks like.
You just have to know it and understand it. And if there are 2x 8 at the beginning, you can bet that the first one is an article. Written out "de
Hi, there, I have collected some words from the VM that might that are definitely the prefixes and show the pattern how the prefixes work. As you can see, the words in each row are in the same grammatical form, that is, the same root and suffix, but prefix is different. I hope Ahmet can provide the translation and explanation for these words.
Dear Cvetka,
I understand you think it's definitely a prefix. But the question has not changed. Can you show a single linguistic data proving that these are prefixes?
I can prove to you in more than one way that these words are not prefixes, since we can read them. For example, if we read these words you have chosen clearly and show them in dictionaries, I think you will reevaluate this issue in terms of your own baseless claims.
While looking at this table, please read the conditions under which we make the following explanations. See the shared dictionary pages below later. When you do this, you will see that a substantial number of words have not changed their phonetic form in the intervening 600 years. You will also find that some words have undergone a fairly minor phonetic change. Moreover, these phonetic changes consistently overlap across 240 pages. In addition, phonetic changes took place in accordance with the field of expectation that the science of Turcology has already explained many times.
PLEASE ASSESS THIS TABLE AND THE FOLLOWING EXPLANATION WITH CONSIDERING THE FOLLOWING ISSUES:
• According to ATA transcription, the words in the table were written 600 years ago in the VM book, and their Latin counterparts are written in capital letters by us.
• If we show a ( - ) sign in front of a letter in a word, it means that that letter is a word suffix. We have previously explained the functions of different word suffixes mentioned here, through various sentence reading examples. Therefore, we will not comment further here. Here is one of the many sources where you can see them together > John Guise, Title: The Turkish Language Explained for English Speakers. Description: A Treatise on the Turkish Language and its Grammar. Updated: August 2015 ISBN 978-0-473-20817-2 Copyright: 2012 John Guise. > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
• The phonetic change of the word, together with the forms in which the word suffixes 600 years ago were transformed in today's Anatolian Turkish, are shown in lowercase letters in parentheses (). At the same time, the forms of these words 600 years ago and today's forms are shown on the Google translator page time by time, so that we can give you an idea of what the artificial intelligence is given in Turkish. (Note: Normally, we only refer to real dictionaries and linguists in our work and articles. But the machine can sometimes read correctly or understand that the word is Turkish.)
• If we have divided a word with a ( + ) sign, this indicates that the parts separated by the + sign are words. It means, this word is a compound word. In this case, the semantic contents of the word components will be displayed on the dictionary pages as separate words. Here, these will not be interpreted separately with compound word meaning content because it would be more accurate to read and interpret them by seeing them in a sentence. This is exactly what we do in our spare time.
• The ( / ) sign will be placed between the reading formats of the words according to ATA transcription. This does not mean that every one of these is meant in any given sentence. This means that every reading style has an equivalent in Turkish. However, when we are reading sentences in VM, it is also stated that which or which of these forms do not disrupt the sentence meaning integrity by us. We will not go into these details here.
• Here we share links to some dictionary pages for various pronunciations. Since Turkish words usually have more than one meaning content, the way to distinguish them correctly can be done with sentence analysis studies. We also do this in our spare time. However, if these works are undertaken by linguists other than a nuclear family working group, the process of translating the whole work into modern language will be shortened in terms of time.
• Below you will see multiple phonetic forms mapped to each spelling. Probably (and logically) the author didn't mean all of these at once. When the same words are examined in more than one sentence, the following multiple options will be reduced and simplified. So in the future we will probably say very clearly which word each of these is. So far, some words have been examined in more than one sentence and it has been clarified which words they are. The reason why we show a large number of phonetic and word forms here is to show that almost every different pronunciation form corresponds to at least one word in Turkish according to ATA transcription. Of course, we do this by showing these words in dictionaries.
THE FOLLOWING NUMBERING IS SHOWN IN ACCORDANCE WITH THE NUMBERS SHOWN BEHIND THE WORDS IN THE TABLE;
1- LAF / LAP / LEP / LEF
LAF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
LEF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
LEP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
LAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
2- LAF-U / LAP-U / LEP-Ü / LEF-Ü
Note: These are the forms with the suffix -U/-Ü next to the word indicated by number 1 in the table above. These sounds have turned into -I/-İ sounds in modern Turkish. In Turkish, the suffixes -U, -Ü, -I, -İ express the same function. Here it doesn't matter which vowel it is because they have no difference in meaning.
3- LAF-SU / LAP-SU / LEP-SÜ / LEF-SÜ, (such as “lafsı”) See > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Note: These are the forms that have suffixed -SU/-SÜ to the word indicated by number 1 in the table above. These sounds have mostly changed to -SI/-Sİ sounds in modern Turkish. However, there are also examples in some dialects where some words have their phonetic values without any change.
4- LAF+SAIP (laf+sağıp/saıp) / LAP+SAIP (lap+sağıp/saıp) / LEP+SAĞIP (lep+sağıp/saıp) / LEF (lef+sağıp/saıp)
Note: The word root is the same as word number 1 above.
See You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.for an explanation.
5- SAM / SEM / ŞAM / ŞEM
SAM (some of the meanins are “herb, weed, hay, vegetable, greenstuff) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SEM (one of the meanin is “medicine”)> You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞAM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞEM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
6- SAP / SAF
SAF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
7- Due to the spelling of the last letter, it was said to be written between S and Z (similar to both). Therefore, it should be viewed in a sentence. However, both SAZ/SEZ and SAR/SER readings of this word are available in Turkish dictionaries.
See;
SAR > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SER > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SAZ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SEZ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
8- SU / SÜ / ŞU / ŞÜ
SU > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SÜ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞU > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞÜ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
9- O+LAF / OLAF (alaf) / ÖLEF (ülefe) / OL+ AP/+EF/+EP
O > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
LAF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OLAF /alaf) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ÖLEF (ülefe) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OL > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
10- O+LEP-Ü / O+LAF-U / OLAF-u (alaf-ı) / ÖLEF-Ü (ülefe-i/-yi) / OL+ AP-U / OL+APU
Note: Same as word number 9, but with -U/-Ü suffixes at the end of the word. Vocabulary links shown in Note 9 apply here as well, but additional LEP and APU vocabulary pages can be found below.
LEP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
APU > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
11- OLAX-SU (oğlak-sı) / O+LAX+SU (o+lak+su) / O+LAX-SU ( o lak-sı) / OLAX-SU (olâh-sı / olası) / O ıLAX+SU (o + ılık/ılıh + su)
OLAX (olak) = OĞLAK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OĞLAK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
O > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
LAX (lak) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OLAX (olah) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ılıh > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ılık > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Please see this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
12- ÖSEM / O+SAM /O+SEM / O+ŞEM / O+ŞAM / ÖS+EM (öz+em / verb form öz+em-mek ) / OS+EM / OS-AM / OŞAM (aşım / aşam) / ÖSEM (uzam / özeme / uzama) / ÖŞ-EM
ÖSEM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
O > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SAM (some of the meanins are “herb, weed, hay, vegetable, greenstuff) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SEM (one of the meanin is “medicine”)> You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞAM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞEM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ÖS (öz) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OS > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ÖŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
aşam > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
aşım > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
özeme > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
uzama > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
uzam > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
13- With the spelling of the first letter of the word, there may be those who read it as A or O according to ATA transcription, so I indicate Turkish words for both.
ASAP / O+SAP / O+SAF
ASAP (In English > nerve) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
O > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SAF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
14- ÖS+AR / ÖS+ER / OS+AR / ÖŞ+ER / OŞ+AR / OSAR (asar / aşar / oz-ar / uzar) / ÖŞ+ER / OŞAR (okşar) / ÖŞER (öşür) / ÖSER (özer/eser/üzer) / ÖS+ER (öz+er)
ÖS (öz) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OS > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ÖŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OZ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Verb form OZ-MAK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ÖZ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Verb form ÖZ-MEK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AR > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Verb form AR-MAK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ER > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Verb form ER-MEK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
asar > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
uzar > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
özer > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
eser > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
üzer > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
öşür > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
15- O+SU / O+SÜ / O+ŞU / O+ŞÜ + ÖSÜ (özü) / OS-U / ÖS-Ü / ÖŞ-Ü
ÖS (öz) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OS > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ÖŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
OZ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
O > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SU > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SÜ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞU > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞÜ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
özü > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
16- DOLAP / DÖLEP / DOLAP (dalap/dolop) / DÖLEP (tölep/delep) / DOL+AP / DOL-AP (dol-up) / DOL + AF / DÖL + EF / DÖL+EP / DÖL-EP (döl-ep/dölleyip > The word root is DÖL. The suffix is-ep.) / DOL+AP / DOLAF (dalaf)
DOLAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
tölep > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
dalap > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
dolop > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
delep > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
dalaf > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DOL > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DÖL > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
17- DOLAP-U / DÖLEP-Ü / DOLAP-U (dalap-ı/dolop-u) / DÖLEP-Ü (tölep-ü/delep-i) / DOL+AP-U / DOL-AP (dol-up-u) / DOL + AF-U / DÖL + EF-Ü / DÖL+EP-Ü
Note: These are the forms with the -U/-Ü word-suffix at the end of the word forms shown in item 16.
18- DOLAP-SU / DÖLEP-SÜ / DOLAP+SU (dalap+su/dolop+su/dolup+su) / DÖLEP-SÜ (tölep-sü/delep-si) / DOL+AP+SU / DOL + AF + SU / DÖL + EF + SU / DÖL+EP+SU / DOL+AP+SU / DOLAF+SU (dalaf+su)
Note: These are the forms that have the word suffix -SU/-SU or the word SU/SU at the end of the word forms shown in item 16. The functions of these word suffixes and the meanings of the words were explained above by showing the sources.
19- DOLAP-SAK / DOLAP-ŞAK / DÖLEP-SEK / DÖLEPŞEK / DOL+APŞAK / DÖL+EPSEK (döl+epesek) / DOL+EPSEK (dol+epesek) / DÖL+APŞAK / DOLAPSAK (dalapsak/dalapşak) / DÖL+EPŞEK
Dalapsak (dalağşak) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Dalapşak > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DOL > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DÖL > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SAK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
SEK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞAK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞEK > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
apşak > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
epesek > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Note: Other variants are the word forms of DOLAP-/DÖLEP- and DÖL-EP-/DOL-AP- shown in item 16, with the word suffix -SAK/-SEK.
20- DÖŞEM / DÖŞ+EM / DÖŞ+AM / DOŞ+AM / DOS-AM / DOS+AM
DÖŞEM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DÖŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DOŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DOS > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
21- DOŞAP / DOŞ+AP / DÖŞ+EP / DÖŞ-EP / DOS-AP / DO+AP / DOŞ-AP
DOŞAP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DÖŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DOŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DOS > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EP > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
AF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EF > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
22- DOS+OR / DOŞ+OR / DÖS-ÖR (döz-er) / DÖŞ+ÖR / DÖŞ-ÖR
DÖS-ÖZ (dözer) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Note: In the above sections, the dictionary pages of these words are shared. There are many words that are close to this word in terms of phonetic value and they can be selected by seeing them in the sentence. For example, the word DÖZMEK, which is a verb from the word "DÖZ", lives in Anatolian dialects. The word suffix -ER is explained in detail in the source I shared above.
dözmek > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
23- DÖŞ-Ü / DOS-U (tozu/dozu) / DOS-U (dost-u)
DÖŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DOS > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
toz > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
24- SOS+EM / SOS-AM (sus-im/sus-em/süs-em/süz-em) / ŞOŞ-AM (şaş-am)
SOS > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
EM > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
süs > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ŞOŞ > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
söz > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Note: Words that are close in sound value (with similar sound value in terms of phonetic form), although there are many, are not listed separately.
25- SOSAR (susar) / SÖS+ER (söz+er/söz+er-i)
The word SOSAR (silent) should be a verb cognate of thirst or to be silent. The root of the word SUS is the suffix is -AR. The SÖS+ER form can also mean “sözünün eri”/”söz+eri” in Turkish. As like others it should be looked at in a sentence too.
SÖZER > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
söz > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
ER > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
sözeri > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. söz eri > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
susar (keeps silent) > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Note: In some dialects of the Turkish language, the word “SUSAMAK / SUSAMA” has the root word SUSAR, and this word is the suffix -AR at the end.
There are 316.000 (three hundred and sixteen thousand) words in the Turkish dictionary of the Turkish language named ÖTÜKEN. If we had made the above list by looking at the ÖTÜKEN dictionary, it would probably be necessary to list at least ten times as many words that are close or overlapping in phonetic values as the list you see. However, you can't find this dictionary online, you can just order it and get the one that is printed on paper.
Please see: Yaşar ÇAĞBAYIR Ötüken Dictionary > You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
As you can see, you made a list of 25 words and we showed that we can read all of them in Turkish. In doing so, we used the methods of linguistics and showed source dictionaries or articles for each phonetic variant.
Some of these words are already included in the sentences we read before, and after reading the same word in several sentences, we will clearly say in which sense that word is.
Linguistics is a science. The methods of reading ancient scripts whose alphabets have not been deciphered before are clear. In linguistics, things will move forward by showing evidence only, but not attributing certainty to inconsistent predictions for sure.
We've shown you what all of the 25 word examples you've given can be, along with various pronunciation variants.
Here, we have shared the dictionary links that largely include phonetic variants of ATA alphabet transcription with 25/25 reading ratio. In other words, we have proven that these words exist in Turkish. Moreover, we have shown that the phonetic value of a significant number of words has not changed at all in the intervening 600 years. Some of these words are mentioned in the sentence reading examples we shared on our own page. We had shown that full sentences and full pages are read which are meaningful and suitable for Turkish grammatical structure. While doing this, we made reference to academic articles and dictionaries, as well as details such as what each root word and suffix means. I think that the number of words we read in this way exceeds 1000. (To tell the truth, I stopped counting after 700) The number of words overlapping the drawing is shown to be more than 100. If you believe that all this could be a coincidence mathematically, you can continue to search for other languages in the VM texts or continue to have more anagram works with EVA & others.
You will not be able to progress with EVA variations and other transcriptions where you cannot read a single meaningful sentence because the content is clearly in Turkish. If even a single person in this group does not accept this, the result will not change, but there will be a waste of time in the context of quickly translating 240 pages into today's language.
Kind regards,
A. Ardıç -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
Ahmet Ardıç > 05-03-2023, 11:48 PM
(05-03-2023, 01:33 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Often you can see that the letter "8/d" does not belong to the actual word. This changes from word to word.
As already described, French uses the apostrophe. Whether "de terre" or "d'terre" is irrelevant. It is written out once and shortened once.
We do the same, but rarely use an apostrophe.
Look carefully. It's not always what it looks like.
You just have to know it and understand it. And if there are 2x 8 at the beginning, you can bet that the first one is an article. Written out "de
Mr. Tentakulus
Your conclusions are what you wish to happen or what you think is happening. You have not presented a single piece of linguistic evidence. That's why I don't think I can understand you. I'm sorry. -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
Ahmet Ardıç > 05-03-2023, 11:53 PM
(05-03-2023, 02:56 PM)pfeaster Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
(04-03-2023, 11:52 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.When I carried out such a search, I could not find any academic article about the fact that the same authors could always write the prefixes separately and together, and this is a common situation in European manuscripts. For this reason, I would appreciate if anyone came across a separate academic article on how this detail was handled in the old written texts of European languages, and if they would share this source with me.
[I'm not sure anyone will have considered this issue significant enough to warrant writing a whole academic article specifically about it. If it has been written about anywhere, I suspect it would be in a practical guide to transcribing handwritten sources in individual languages (such as Middle French).]
However, for at least 300 years, European linguists have studied and written many small details of the ancient writings of European civilization by tearing them apart. Maybe there is no material to write on this subject, what do you think? -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
Ahmet Ardıç > 06-03-2023, 12:37 AM
(05-03-2023, 08:59 PM)cvetkakocj@rogers.com Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Hi, Ahmet,
arguing whether the VM has prefixes or not, or whether prefixes can be written separately or together will not give your theory more credibility. Look at the VM text and suggest your explanation for the grammatical pattern that linguists, non-linguists, and even computers, can recognize as prefixes. You can replace VM glyphs with any letters you want, EVA, ATA or whatever, the pattern is still the same. It is not related to the pictures, but to the grammatical structure of the language.
You cannot claim to solve the VM language if you have no explanation for this grammatical pattern. Explaining this is essential because of the large number of pre-fixed words. If you don't believe this pattern is created by prefixes, you can offer your explanation.
I have collected some of the VM words and the number of their occurrences that clearly show the pattern of prefixes EVA o-, and qo-. This pattern has been recognized by many VM researchers as a proof of the existence of prefixes. If you think thy are not prefixes, let us know your explanation. By the way, it was your son who claimed in the second video that Turkish language has no prefixes.
If you are asking for cooperation, I would be more than willing to offer you my explanation and translation of all the words on the list, if you can do the same. It would be interesting to compare.
Sincerely,
Cvetka
Dear Cvetka,
I think you did not examine our work in detail enough to evaluate it.
For the first time in history, we have prepared an ATA transcription key that can read VM texts. We have translated many sentences into today's modern Turkish by showing that they are suitable for the grammatical structure of Turkish with this key.
Likewise, some full pages were read by us. prof. Dr. M. Asgarov says that he read about 10 pages in full, and for some of them he sent articles to international and local symposiums and these articles were published.
Likewise, our articles (except one because our full page read will be published soon) have been published as well. We're just moving forward with linguistic evidence and we know very well what to do and how not to do it.
You proceed by simply referring to personal inferences, without presenting a single key to read the texts and without showing proven sentence readings. I think your work is on the way to create a constructive language from anagrams.
But things shouldn't be done this way. As I said, prefixes in these texts are just personal or fanciful inferences. Not a single scientific basis has been presented to prove these inferences. We, on the other hand, conduct our study based only on linguistic and real evidence. So following your advice will be going backwards in what we do, which we don't want to do. Why look for other keys when we already have one proven key that works and opens the current VM door?
I invite you and all linguists who see prefixes in these words to turn to scientific methods, by leaving unfounded claims aside. Of course, you can continue to work with the methods you know. Let's see how far you can go on VM pages.
Kind regards,
A. Ardıç
Note: Neither of the parts & words you show with this second table are prefix and contain any prefix. These are also ordinary Turkish words. But I won't spend as much time reading them as I did on the first table right now. Because I don't think you have grasped the linguistic value & meaning of the evidence we have presented earlier. In other words, since I did not receive any understandable feedback about our past readings, I do not think to read this secont table now. Probably the problem is me. Knowing something and being able to tell what you know to the other person are two different things. I'm starting to think that readers on this platform mostly don't understand my expressions, especially because of my bad English.
Thanks, -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
tavie > 06-03-2023, 12:41 AM
On topic: Anton, those are some really creative ideas to explain the reduplication, especially the one about ordered preferencing. You're right that it would struggle to hold up against both the number and the range of reduplications, and if it were part of a "solution", it would seem special pleading. But it is an intriguing way of providing a potential explanation for some of the pairs, and also the way some of the manuscript appears to show list-like behaviour. I'm trying to imagine what it could be in the (possible) context of the manuscript: ordered lists of medicines or habits to do each day? Lists of what should be done or should not be done according to astrology?
Another explanation - but I think less likely and covering only a couple of pairs - could be down to how we parse the pair. e.g. when we see daiin daiin, are those truly identical, or could the "minim" glyphs represent different plain text letters?
(05-03-2023, 11:53 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Maybe there is no material to write on this subject, what do you think?
Off topic: I think this thread will need to be split off into a Turkish thread, the way it is going.
Ahmed, you often talk rather scathingly or at best dismissively here and in your own thread about how those who don't accept your theory, like us or the linguist reviews who refused to accept your journal article, aren't thinking scientifically or are mathematically illiterate, etc, etc. You keep hammering home the word "science". But on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., you said the English word "September" comes from the Turkish SERPMEK / SEPELEMEK and connected it with raining. This is not linguistics. This is pseudo-linguistics. It is not a scientific approach. It is a pseudo-scientific approach.
If you want your theory accepted, if you want reviewers to approve your articles, you need to fix this huge problem that is at the core of your methodology. When the methodology is rotten, the results will always been seen as tainted. Saying you've found 100 Turkish words, 250 Turkish words, now apparently 1000 Turkish words and repeating over and over that such a coincidence is mathematically impossible is not going to bring your theory acceptance. Especially when i) others including people on this thread have spotted lots of words in a different language (why is theirs a mathetically possible coincidence and yours a mathematically impossible coincidence?); ii) you often have to make adjustments or accommodations or make instances of special pleading to match it to Turkish, and you do not seem to analyse these; and iii) for all we know, all 1000 identifications could be like September. -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
Ahmet Ardıç > 06-03-2023, 02:03 AM
(06-03-2023, 12:41 AM)tavie Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.On topic: Anton, those are some really creative ideas to explain the reduplication, especially the one about ordered preferencing. You're right that it would struggle to hold up against both the number and the range of reduplications, and if it were part of a "solution", it would seem special pleading. But it is an intriguing way of providing a potential explanation for some of the pairs, and also the way some of the manuscript appears to show list-like behaviour. I'm trying to imagine what it could be in the (possible) context of the manuscript: ordered lists of medicines or habits to do each day? Lists of what should be done or should not be done according to astrology?
Another explanation - but I think less likely and covering only a couple of pairs - could be down to how we parse the pair. e.g. when we see daiin daiin, are those truly identical, or could the "minim" glyphs represent different plain text letters?
(05-03-2023, 11:53 PM)Ahmet Ardıç Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. Maybe there is no material to write on this subject, what do you think?
Off topic: I think this thread will need to be split off into a Turkish thread, the way it is going.
Ahmed, you often talk rather scathingly or at best dismissively here and in your own thread about how those who don't accept your theory, like us or the linguist reviews who refused to accept your journal article, aren't thinking scientifically or are mathematically illiterate, etc, etc. You keep hammering home the word "science". But on You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view., you said the English word "September" comes from the Turkish SERPMEK / SEPELEMEK and connected it with raining. This is not linguistics. This is pseudo-linguistics. It is not a scientific approach. It is a pseudo-scientific approach.
If you want your theory accepted, if you want reviewers to approve your articles, you need to fix this huge problem that is at the core of your methodology. When the methodology is rotten, the results will always been seen as tainted. Saying you've found 100 Turkish words, 250 Turkish words, now apparently 1000 Turkish words and repeating over and over that such a coincidence is mathematically impossible is not going to bring your theory acceptance. Especially when i) others including people on this thread have spotted lots of words in a different language (why is theirs a mathetically possible coincidence and yours a mathematically impossible coincidence?); ii) you often have to make adjustments or accommodations or make instances of special pleading to match it to Turkish, and you do not seem to analyse these; and iii) for all we know, all 1000 identifications could be like September.
Dear Tavie,
Mathematical coincidences proceed based on formulas. So my opinion or anyone else's opinion is nothing to prove them. This issue is about the number of words read clearly and whether the number of words in sentences read completely will happen by chance.
Our full-page reading article in VM texts was accepted in an international symposium in an organization where 36 linguists were in the refereeing committee (as far as I know, it is read by at least 4 expert Turcologist-linguist). This article will be published soon, but we have previously published an article in an international symposium organized by another university. I also have an article published by the Azerbaijan Academy of Sciences.
As for the word September; Western linguistics explains this word as "ninth month of the Roman year." But in fact, there is no context to explain which part of this word is "month" and which part is "ninth" or "the Roman Year".
According to the explanations; It is so called because it was the original seventh month of the old Roman calendar, which began the year in March (Julian calendar reform (46 B.C.E.) shifted the new year back two months. For -ber suffix, as like Decem-ber.) The point is "how and the original seventh month of the old Roman calendar gets its name? in which meaning? & when?
It is said by European linguists that the word is associated with the word "seven". The only connection with the word "seven" meaning "seven", which is said to be related here, is the ascription of linguists. Perhaps the word "seven" is not related to number pronouns, but to the naming of the seventh month of the ancient calendar "rainy month" (sepen-/seper-). And perhaps the number name "seven" got its name because of the calendar name.
In other words, there is a situation like whether the chicken came out of the egg or the egg came from the chicken.
The word seven is said to come from the Proto-Germanic *sebun (PIE *septm). Here, both the *sebun phonetic form and the PIE *septm phonetic form are an unproven fictitious sound form. It is not determined how the name of the number "seven", which is tied to the word Hittite shipta, was born. Linguists still debate whether the Hittite language was an Indo-European language or an agglutinative language. But that discussion is similar to our discussion of whether there was many prefix or not in VM. One side has repeated the misinformation so many times that it defends the wrong, detached from the evidence.
In other words, it is nothing more than a cleverly thought-out (but unproven whether the number name was born earlier or the calendar name was born earlier) by one or more linguists.
Etymology should refer to the oldest written sources.
Linguists have already debated for many years how consistent etymological dictionaries are. I have been involved in this discussion in various ways, and the explanation methods I use are purely those used by linguistics. I do not expect my etymo-claims to be accepted immediately. Even if they are not accepted at all, someone should constantly remind the nonsense produced in the name of linguistics to those who produce them. That's what I'm doing. It is nonsense, not science, to refer to fictitious data when there is a real oldest written data. I'm just one of those pointing out this nonsense, and there are others, I'm not alone.
I and those who think like me read the explanations made in the articles that are said to be scientific, just like you do. We see that many words are connected to those roots by creating imaginary roots there. It may seem scientific to produce such etymological explanations. But I do not accept what is said without a mental filter just because someone said it by heart. For this reason, we decoded the VM texts. Otherwise, if we had believed in advance the imaginary fabrications that were repeated many times, we would not need to research this VM related work in detail. Saying that there are many prefixes here in VM and this is probably a European language manuscript just an baseless claim. We do not have the habit of believing everything that is said by researchers, and we evaluate what is said through a mental filter, luckily even if it is a scientist claim.
Thanks -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
Aga Tentakulus > 06-03-2023, 02:09 AM
@Ahmet Ardıç
OK. I try to explain with many examples. Examples with words in the original and the translation.
I think most of it is easy to understand. The applications are also similar everywhere.
They write that they don't understand it. OK.
I have given enough examples, I just don't repeat them every time.
By way of repetition:
"g" as abbreviation of unus/unum
"g" is a number word = one = latin = unus/unum
As an ending it stands for singular.
As a prefix it stands for "one" the opposite of "ex" which is also a prefix.
It can also stand alone, but then I have to write it out, otherwise the translator won't understand it.
Examples of use for "unum" test by lat.- engl. self.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In combination "8" = de or also d'. This also applies to Latin, French, Alemannic and with di-o-de also in Italian.
You can use it, turn it, upside down, individually or in groups. It always works.
The nice thing about it is that it is not a real encryption, but it is a good application.
Translated with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (free version) -
RE: Sequential word repetitions in the VMS
Ahmet Ardıç > 06-03-2023, 02:44 AM
(06-03-2023, 02:09 AM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.@Ahmet Ardıç
OK. I try to explain with many examples. Examples with words in the original and the translation.
I think most of it is easy to understand. The applications are also similar everywhere.
They write that they don't understand it. OK.
I have given enough examples, I just don't repeat them every time.
By way of repetition:
"g" as abbreviation of unus/unum
"g" is a number word = one = latin = unus/unum
As an ending it stands for singular.
As a prefix it stands for "one" the opposite of "ex" which is also a prefix.
It can also stand alone, but then I have to write it out, otherwise the translator won't understand it.
Examples of use for "unum" test by lat.- engl. self.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
In combination "8" = de or also d'. This also applies to Latin, French, Alemannic and with di-o-de also in Italian.
You can use it, turn it, upside down, individually or in groups. It always works.
The nice thing about it is that it is not a real encryption, but it is a good application.
Translated with You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. (free version)
Dear Tentakulus,
I have carefully read what you wrote. These may be claims, thoughts, assumptions, but they are not evidence or do not provide evidence. Here is the problem. There are many people who constantly make claims about the VM texts that they cannot read.
However, at the end of the day, don't you think of presenting them to the linguists of the language you are claiming about VM by reading what you say in many sentences in VM with together doing some full-page of readings? When you do this, they will not want to see anagram readings but they will interest only realistic readings (which will be stripped of personal considerations) covered in linguistic evidence only.
Regards,