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Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
- Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
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RE: Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
Aga Tentakulus > 07-10-2026, 03:38 PM
The trees (tree rings) are used as markers to calculate the C-14 content.
This is due to the large amount of burnt-out carbon C-14 that is more than 50,000 years old.
This is caused by the increased burning of fossil fuels, starting with the steam engine and coal, and later including petrol, diesel and heating oil.
The high proportion of fossil carbon would otherwise lead to incorrect analyses, a phenomenon that began around 250 years ago. This must be taken into account.
Trees, too, have absorbed these higher levels.
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RE: Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
oaken > 08-10-2026, 12:16 AM
I'd be interested to know if there is a list anywhere of where the comparison tree-ring samples for the carbon dating database come from (obviously there are some places where there will be no/few samples available) and whether/how quickly C-14 is distributed across the world. for instance, is it less accurate for objects from deserts or the southern hemisphere and if so how much? -
RE: Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
Bernd > 09-10-2026, 12:20 AM
There are different calibration curves available depending on region and environment. Marine or Atmospheric (Northern and Southern hemisphere as well as mixed curves for equatorial regions). In case of the VM, only the IntCal curve makes sense. Northern Hemisphere atmospheric data.
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RE: Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
eggyk > 09-10-2026, 12:22 AM
(08-10-2026, 12:16 AM)oaken Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'd be interested to know if there is a list anywhere of where the comparison tree-ring samples for the carbon dating database come from (obviously there are some places where there will be no/few samples available) and whether/how quickly C-14 is distributed across the world. for instance, is it less accurate for objects from deserts or the southern hemisphere and if so how much?
The northern and southern hemispheres have different C-14 levels as the air currents don't mix all that much between the two. A different calibration curve is used for objects from the southern hemisphere (SHCal instead of IntCal). As for different areas of the northern hemisphere, I believe that the air currents are pretty well mixed, so there shouldn't be any issues. Sahara sands blow over europe frequently, as well as cold air from the poles. The hurricanes off the coast of northern america drift east towards here too. I imagine it's much the same over in the east.
As it's almost certain that the VMS is from the northern hemisphere somewhere, IntCal was definitely the right one to use. -
RE: Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
Linda > Yesterday, 12:06 AM
(08-10-2026, 12:16 AM)oaken Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I'd be interested to know if there is a list anywhere of where the comparison tree-ring samples for the carbon dating database come from (obviously there are some places where there will be no/few samples available) and whether/how quickly C-14 is distributed across the world. for instance, is it less accurate for objects from deserts or the southern hemisphere and if so how much?
I thought this was interesting, dendrochronology based on historic buildings.
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Insofar as your question, I guess it would be here You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. -
RE: Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
cencei > Yesterday, 06:27 AM
I just watched Lisa's talk "The Materiality of the Voynich Manuscript" ( You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. ) where she hints at the VMS as originally unbound assembly of singulions, and... I feel a bit blown away by the implications.
Wouldn't this discovery (if confirmed) directly contradict the assumption of the C14 report? If the analysis starts with the assumption (not: result) that all samples came from a single work, it should probably be re-done without that assumption, right? If the VMS was first assembled as stack of loose singulions, it very well could have been a multigenerational family/clan project, or a work that was extended by several authors ("hands") over the course of decades.
Like, let's say, a scriptorium handing out damaged vellum sheets so the apprentice can copy out arbitrary drawings from old books and won't ruin customer's commissions with their unlearned hand. After some years the boss monk has a stack of low-quality pastiches and scribbles done by different apprentices over the course of some years, and adds the text as practical joke or income source. Such a theory is easily testable, but it absolutely requires more than four data points to rule it out with any certainty. -
RE: Assumptions baked into the VMS carbon dating
Oscroft > Yesterday, 08:01 AM
(Yesterday, 06:27 AM)cencei Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If the analysis starts with the assumption (not: result) that all samples came from a single work, it should probably be re-done without that assumption, right? If the VMS was first assembled as stack of loose singulions, it very well could have been a multigenerational family/clan project, or a work that was extended by several authors ("hands") over the course of decades.
I'm not an expert in any relevant field, but one thing that would cast doubt over a multi-generation timescale for me is the general uniformity of it all.
The artwork looks stylistically consistent throughout (and consistently poor), at least to my untutored eye. It appears there were several scribes, not just one who added all the text some time later. But the number is still disputed, and it seems their writing styles are so similar it needs subject expertise to tell them apart. The evidence that it isn't all in a single hand seems strong, but the close similarity suggests a shorter timescale to me.
If what we have is indeed multi-generational, I'd expect to see significantly wider stylistic variation. And I mean on a large scale that layfolk could see, not minor variations.