Zodiac Construction

[rikforto]

I am putting together some data related to degrees of the zodiac and I would like to present it next to the corresponding entries in the Zodiac section. This requires me to make judgements about what those are. I have my own sense of the pages, but I am wondering exactly how much opinions vary in the community. I realize some of you all are going to reject the idea that there is an order or that they represent degrees, but for those of you willing to play along, a few questions:

1. Where do you start the count of nymphs/labels/whatevers on each page?
   
2. Do you count clockwise or counterclockwise?
   
3. Do you see the rows staring from the middle or the outside? (Or in another order?)
   
4. Do you account for the Aires and Taurus rounds in any unusual way, like the second one first?
   

Elaborate as much as you want! I welcome guesses, expressions of doubt, and points you've gone back and forth on! I just want to take the temperature of the room.

Anyway, looking forward to learning that we're even further from consensus than I would have guessed before

---

My answers, which I have some uncertainty about:

1. After the double lines when in evidence; about 9'o'clock paying attention to the gallows letters in the running text for hard to judge cases.
   
2. Clockwise, with some misgivings
   
3. Start from the inside, working out
   
4. Aires and Taurus in their binding order
   

[pjburkshire]

I never found a good starting point.

More figures seem to be facing in a clockwise direction so I go that way.

I start from the inner circle.

I don't know about the strangeness of Aires and Taurus.

[Koen G]

If you imagine all the nymphs lined up in a single line (or circle, if you want a cycle), then it makes sense to read from the inner circles to the outer ones. 

• In Pisces, the inner circle is unique with horizontal barrels
  
• The outer circle of Pisces and the entirety of both Aries maintain figures sitting in patterned barrels.
  
• In the first Taurus, the only really elaborate barrel is on the inner ring.
  
• Second Taurus switches to walking nymphs in the outer ring.
  
• Gemini is a bit weird: there are nymphs standing on stuff in the bottom left outer ring, as well as one in the top row.
  
• Cancer to Sagittarius is plain nymphs all the way through.
  
• BUT in the top (third ring) row of Sagittarius, something like one or two horizontal tubes can be observed. A transition to something in the missing pages, which evolves to the horizontal barrels of Pisces inner ring? (Pure speculation).
  

No idea where the rings should start. Clockwise reading seems suggested by preferential walking direction.

[Jorge_Stolfi]

If you imagine all the nymphs lined up in a single line (or circle, if you want a cycle), then it makes sense to read from the inner circles to the outer ones.  ... No idea where the rings should start. Clockwise reading seems suggested by preferential walking direction.

When trying to figure this out, we should keep in mind that the Scribe did not necessarily draw the nymphs in the order in which they should be read (which he probably did not know either).  And he need not have been consistent over all diagrams.

Based on the "artistic quality", I believe that the first nymph that he drew, in the whole VMS, was the inner one on Aries 1 (f70v1) at 12:00.  I posted elsewhere my theory for what the nymph originally looked like, and how he invented the tubs just to hide his sorry failure.

Otherwise I would guess that he usually drew the nymphs in clockwise order starting form ~12:00. However the text rings seem to read clockwise from ~10:30. 

BUT in the top (third ring) row of Sagittarius, something like one or two horizontal tubes can be observed.

I see those "barrels" as contributions by one of the retracers, who mistook the bottom outline of the thigh of a nymph for the top outline of a faded barrel, and proceeded to "restore" it as such.

All the best, --stolfi