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f79r - something written under water ???
- f79r - something written under water ???
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RE: f79r - something written under water ???
Jorge_Stolfi > Today, 03:00 AM
(Yesterday, 11:45 PM)oshfdk Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think taking either a UV image or a good close up with a modern phone may provide more information.
I doubt it. It looks like the paint in that area has 100% coverage. To see whether there are ink strokes under the paint we would need some wavelength that can get through the blue pigment, which is probably azurite (copper carbonate). But I checked the images of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in ultraviolet (365 UV), blue (450 RB), and infrared (940 IR), and in all of them the blue paint seems to be opaque and "black".
All the best, --stolfi -
RE: f79r - something written under water ???
nablator > 7 hours ago
(Yesterday, 10:44 PM)PIOCTOEMW Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Konr is there.
I suppose it's a case of "once you see it you can't unsee it".
In your pic I could maybe make out "Kebur", the "K" mostly made of a "V" shape and a short leg, and the "b" missing its top making two spikes.
For me it's "Waſſer" in the "new" (2014) scan and "Kebur" in the "old" (2004) scan. Too different to conclude anything without a better (backlit) picture.
Jorge_Stolfi Wrote:It looks like the paint in that area has 100% coverage.
The paint is not too thick to be transparent, especially on the right side (that's why it's lighter) but the hidden writing is on the left side.
Starting from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
DStretch attempts:
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RE: f79r - something written under water ???
oshfdk > 5 hours ago
(Today, 03:00 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I doubt it. It looks like the paint in that area has 100% coverage. To see whether there are ink strokes under the paint we would need some wavelength that can get through the blue pigment, which is probably azurite (copper carbonate). But I checked the images of You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. in ultraviolet (365 UV), blue (450 RB), and infrared (940 IR), and in all of them the blue paint seems to be opaque and "black".
It's not guaranteed, but UV probably still has the highest chance of giving more information. As you can see in the image below, the paint from You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. remains dark in all images from UV to IR, but it is a bit less dark in UV, while the ink remains visible in UV and gradually disappears in IR. And while for You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. it's still impossible to discern the ink under the paint in UV, the paint there is obviously much denser if compared with f79r, as seen on the visible light scans.
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RE: f79r - something written under water ???
BessAgritianin > 2 hours ago
I may be wrong, but read this message as "kybel":
Thsi is an ancient Slavic word for groin or inguinal area (slabiny, trisla- gümpel).
If we look at the lady holding above the vessel her anatomical positioning is significant for exposing the body part mentioned.
I am not claiming this is the solution, but a testable reading that deserves consideration.
I would ask that you hold your acusations for me "spreading a Slavonic Theory" as this is my specific observation for a single word on a single folio and is no way a theory. -
RE: f79r - something written under water ???
eggyk > 1 hour ago
A bunch of us have posted different attempts at enhancing the image, with each attempt clearly generating slightly different results including different "strokes" that become visible. From those slightly different results we are now seeing many different interpretations.
I would argue that implies that we simply cannot see enough to say one way or the other for any of these. It's not even clear that there is any text at all. Yes, you can try to make out an R if you want to, but anything can become an R if it is half obscured through uneven paint.
There are 100s of ways you could interpret this noise to turn them into words. I can just as easily make out "yustr" from the same image.
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RE: f79r - something written under water ???
DG97EEB > 1 hour ago
I asked Gemini (currently the best vision model) - amazingly all I gave it was a crop and it figured out which post it was on here.. but I tend to agree it's pareidolia... That said, we have other colour codes, so possibly it says water or green or blue in some language..
"No word is present beneath the pigment. The "feint outline" is an optical illusion resulting from pareidolia, not obscured European or Indo-European text. The visual data is a heavily processed iteration of Voynich Manuscript Folio 79r. The objective reality of the physical artifact is that coarse azurite pigment has pooled and cracked on an uneven vellum substrate. By applying extreme hue and contrast alterations, the original publisher of the image artificially amplified the noise of the pigment's physical topography and the image's inherent digital compression artifacts into sharp contours. The assertion from the source thread that the shapes form the Polish letters "k o ń r" fails rigorous paleographic analysis, as the resulting boundaries lack the essential ductus, geometry, and structural continuity of deliberate linguistic symbols. The outlines are strictly material and digital noise." -
RE: f79r - something written under water ???
Koen G > 5 minutes ago
(1 hour ago)DG97EEB Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That said, we have other colour codes, so possibly it says water or green or blue in some language..
That's what I was getting at when I said "por" earlier. The style of the supposed "r" is similar to that of the other color annotations, and the color is the same as well.
So my guess is: pareidolia or "por".