Zauriek > 01-07-2026, 07:31 AM
(30-06-2026, 08:28 AM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Physical structure of the book = order of the pages, the way they are nested into each other, binding... Since we know the pages are currently not bound in order, it makes sense to look at what's on them if we want to learn more about the original structure.Oh, if the Physical structure of the book counts as the "order of the pages" then yea then i owe and give my apologies. But if it is just the molecular structure of the pages... Or it could be talking something about a LLM and the data given to the ai model is based on tousands of scans of old manuscripts bindings or something like that, that sounds expensive.
Zauriek > 01-07-2026, 07:59 AM
(30-06-2026, 01:00 PM)magnesium Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.To be clear, I mean "physical structure" in the way Koen describes itAh, it has sense that way. Then i feel happy for the mods now.
(30-06-2026, 01:00 PM)magnesium Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.the VMS parchment is calfskin and not of the quality that "vellum" typically connotesOh, thanks for that, i learned it wrong.
(30-06-2026, 01:00 PM)magnesium Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.how the pages are nested together and sequenced.I am terrible at understanding LLMs; But, giving a neural network data to work with has like an umbral where it works best or somethink like that [i do not understand them.] i'm assuming doing a matrix of comparisions for the scanned images of the pages may give something interesting;
Zauriek > 01-07-2026, 04:55 PM
(18-05-2026, 11:00 PM)barienka Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would be curious whether other researchers have explored similar psychological, educational or family-based interpretations.Ok, more ideas;
ololololo > Yesterday, 09:42 PM
(01-07-2026, 04:55 PM)Zauriek Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.This scientist should understand that other scientists should also read it, so no...(18-05-2026, 11:00 PM)barienka Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I would be curious whether other researchers have explored similar psychological, educational or family-based interpretations.Ok, more ideas;
what about a representation of dancing and singing of a Very ancient group, like an historian version of an aboriginal tribe trough the eyes of a medieval scholar; That would explain why so much nakedness, it was normal for them (somewhat like the sentinel island who had been living in a spot for thousands of year with very archaic structure.) And the representation of medieval items or iconography in the characters are like the European perception of the tribe's iconography that they could not understand; Like when the Spanish priests in the Americas painted natives with European traits (that they did not had).
Maybe medieval Europe had a phase similar to the north America colony of "displacing" a very old native tribe of an isolated area during their big cities expansion. Like a millennial-old tribe which dialect got somehow understood and transcribed in the vms with the writing symbols (like French, German and Latin) to represent their phonetically sounds that could be similar to the dialect.
The pocket like nature of the vms and the out of order and stuff, could imply different travels to these regions or something.
Maybe this ancient tribe "vanished" after their lands got taken by the medieval cities growth; they were absorbed or you know, had the same fate that native Americans tribes.
Not sure if there is any precedent of a medieval scribe keeping records of an isolated ancient tribe in medieval Europe to draw comparisons, since Europe region grow gradually from its habitants i guess it will be a very rare thing, but possible?
Not sure if the church would even allow to keep or show such historic registries to priests and/or scholars.
ololololo > Yesterday, 09:49 PM
(18-05-2026, 11:00 PM)barienka Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I also wonder whether the author could have been someone highly intelligent but outside formal academic structures, possibly even a woman with limited access to official education in the 15th century. Such a person might have created a private symbolic system to organize botanical, medical and astrological knowledge gathered from fragments of learning available around them.In general, I agree that the manuscript was created for educational purposes. But I don't think this is the personal notebook of a very smart person, and it's also obvious that the manuscript is not a visual manual.
Stefan Wirtz_2 > Yesterday, 11:18 PM
(Yesterday, 09:42 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..]
At that time, there were no unexplored peoples in Europe that we did not know about. All, say, the Alpine "Indians" had disappeared by the beginning of the Middle Ages, long before VMS was written.
Jorge_Stolfi > Today, 12:49 AM
(Yesterday, 09:42 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.At that time, there were no unexplored peoples in Europe that we did not know about. All, say, the Alpine "Indians" had disappeared by the beginning of the Middle Ages, long before VMS was written.
ololololo > 9 hours ago
(Yesterday, 11:18 PM)Stefan Wirtz_2 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's true. But assuming such a scenario, we wonder what the scribe's idea was. If he wanted to tell us about the language or culture of these peoples, he would have written it in Latin. There is no need to go far - the Codex Barberini, a translation of the Aztec herbalist from Nahuatl into Latin, or the Codex Cumanicus, where the Kipchak words are transcribed into Latin and where it is marked that this is the "Tatar language". According to the logic of the VMS, they should not have been translated.(Yesterday, 09:42 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.[..]
At that time, there were no unexplored peoples in Europe that we did not know about. All, say, the Alpine "Indians" had disappeared by the beginning of the Middle Ages, long before VMS was written.
Maybe the question is not "which people do we not know / disappeared in late medieval",
maybe the question is "which people's medieval language do we not know / changed / disappeared meanwhile?"
The Prussians (not the later templars capturing that name) spoke a version of slavic.
The Livonians had an own writing system / alphabet and produced books, until they were conquered by the templars and their manuscripts were seized and burned.
...
ololololo > 9 hours ago
(Today, 12:49 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Quite interesting examples... But the question is the same - why did the author need his own writing system?(Yesterday, 09:42 PM)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.At that time, there were no unexplored peoples in Europe that we did not know about. All, say, the Alpine "Indians" had disappeared by the beginning of the Middle Ages, long before VMS was written.
Well... Surely not "uncivilized" tribes, like those that still exist in the Amazon. Or even tribes with wildly different customs. But the You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. of Northern Italy are a small Germanic-speaking "tribe" that was formed around 1300 CE in an Alpine valley and have kept their own distinctive language to the present day.
In Italy there is also a small region where people speak a You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.. The community was formed in the 1400s or maybe earlier.
The You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. suddenly went extinct when the last speaker was blown to bits in June 10, 1898, in an island on the coast of Croatia. (I we ask an AI artist to create a portrait of that poor guy, will it have spots?)
All the best, --stolfi
Linda > 4 hours ago
(9 hours ago)ololololo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But the question is the same - why did the author need his own writing system?