Fabrizio Salani > 18-04-2026, 08:35 AM
(17-04-2026, 10:49 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.That's right, Jorge. I like to think of the author, or authors, or assistants of the autor, as a "doctor, herbalist, apothecary, alchemist, adventurer" of the time who traveled through little-known Europe and wrote down his thoughts, knowledge, and experiences. Perhaps he (or they?) took notes on paper during the day, then transferred his knowledge to parchment (which is more durable over time; this is also why the manuscript has no obvious corrections, second thoughts, or erasures). He corrected on paper, and the parchment was the definitive medium. He wrote in the evenings or when he could spare a moment, leaning on a table, a stone, or on his own lap, which is why he couldn't be precise. Perhaps he (they?) bought parchement where he could during his trips. At first glance, it looks to me like the parchment sheets are different in color and thickness, but perhaps it's just a scanning defect.(17-04-2026, 07:43 AM)JustAnotherTheory Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Assuming that the VMS was not written in a scriptorium (i.e., not in an "official" place filled with dozens of professional scribes [...])
The VMS was definitely not produced by a "professional" scribe or in such a "manuscript factory". The VMS Scribe apparently had some experience preparing and handling a quill pen and writing Latin or Vernacular, but did not have the basic know-how for producing a "commercial quality" manuscript.
He did not score text rails (margin lines) or baselines, and thus his text lines are all crooked and unevenly spaced, often with irregular or slanted rails.
He let the quill run almost dry before recharging it, and possibly did not "prime" it on some scrap paper to remove excess ink before starting to write again; so that the loops on characters like o, d, Ch etc often became black blobs.
We can see that he had a compass with ink point, and a ruler; but the sizes of the circles are not uniform, and often they fail to close -- as if the compass was not very solid, or the vellum was not firmly pinned flat to the table. He apparently did not know how to divide a circle into four equal parts, much less into 6 or 12 (as needed by some Cosmo diagrams) or 5 or 10 (as needed in the Zodiac). And he did not plan the positions of the nymphs, so they often ended overflowing the space between circles and had to be drawn on top of them.
And he did not use iron-gall ink -- whether out of ignorance, or for other reason, we can't tell.
The point is that the Author apparently could not afford a professional scribe, just as he could not afford good quality parvechellument.
I doubt that he would have been desperate to the point of stealing the vellum. I think he just went around parchment makers, traders, and "manuscript factories" haggling and begging for the cheapest stuff they had. I think it is possible that some of them gave him the contents of their "reject" bins for free.
Or maybe he just scavenged his and other libraries for books with blank bifolios, or blank double-size folios that could be folded into his bifolios.
The only estimate for the price of vellum in today's money that I have seen so far was about US$ 2 per folio. Is there a better estimate? From the prices of Gutenberg's Bible we can deduce that paper was about 1/5 the price of vellum, or less. But that is for good-quality material...
In spite of his hardships at the time, the Author must have known better times, since he probably was educated and owned some number of "scientific" books -- like Taccola's, Oresme's, the Balneis, etc.
All the best, --stolfi
Bernd > 19-04-2026, 10:54 AM
(17-04-2026, 10:49 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.In spite of his hardships at the time, the Author must have known better times, since he probably was educated and owned some number of "scientific" books -- like Taccola's, Oresme's, the Balneis, etc.I agree with the rest of your assessment, Jorge, but I would rule out that the VM creator personally owned these - or any - reference books. Illustrated manuscripts would have been worth a fortune and unless a compilation including all VM imagery sources existed, he would have needed a small library, something one would not find with any average man, especially a poor one who had to resort to making bad parchment and ink. And then there's the 'elephant in the room' - BNCF Palatino 766, Taccola's personal notebook De ingeneis III-IV created for Emperor Sigismund of which no known copies exist. In contrast to the other VM references, (and Taccola's other works), as far as we know, this was never a book one could simply acquire as a copy, even when putting a huge amount of money on the table. In fact, we do not even know if this specific book ever reached a wider audience. It even widens the gap between the necessary quality of the illustration source and the DIY character of the VM.
ReneZ > 19-04-2026, 12:38 PM
(19-04-2026, 10:54 AM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As far as I understood, Lisa does not agree with Wladimir D on the trimming / cutting of parchment pages. I believe we should look into this more and see if we can sort out this dispute.
Bernd > 19-04-2026, 02:02 PM
(19-04-2026, 12:38 PM)ReneZ Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.But does that rule out the folios were cut from larger sheets of equally uneven size and shape?(19-04-2026, 10:54 AM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.As far as I understood, Lisa does not agree with Wladimir D on the trimming / cutting of parchment pages. I believe we should look into this more and see if we can sort out this dispute.
The pages are of uneven shape and uneven size. This strongly suggests that there has not been any even moderately consistent trimming at the time of MS creation.
As I wrote in the post I quoted yesterday (about MS sizes), in very few places one can see more modern cuts, which stand out somewhat as the parchment is lighter at these cuts.
Manuscripts that were trimmed after creation, (almost) look like modern books. The difference is very clear.
Jorge_Stolfi > 19-04-2026, 02:29 PM
(19-04-2026, 10:54 AM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I agree with the rest of your assessment, Jorge, but I would rule out that the VM creator personally owned these - or any - reference books. Illustrated manuscripts would have been worth a fortune and unless a compilation including all VM imagery sources existed, he would have needed a small library, something one would not find with any average man, especially a poor one who had to resort to making bad parchment and ink.
Quote:And then there's the 'elephant in the room' - BNCF Palatino 766, Taccola's personal notebook De ingeneis III-IV created for Emperor Sigismund of which no known copies exist.
Quote:In contrast to the other VM references, (and Taccola's other works), as far as we know, this was never a book one could simply acquire as a copy, even when putting a huge amount of money on the table. In fact, we do not even know if this specific book ever reached a wider audience. It even widens the gap between the necessary quality of the illustration source and the DIY character of the VM.
Quote:I wonder why someone would even go through the process of making 100+ bad parchment sheets, which obviously was a lot of work.
Quote:the author or a community may have produced all materials including ink and pigments DIY style.
Quote:Why not use paper?
Koen G > 19-04-2026, 02:51 PM
(19-04-2026, 10:54 AM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Following Lisa's assessment of the parchment as basically scrap, I wonder why someone would even go through the process of making 100+ bad parchment sheets, which obviously was a lot of work. Why not use paper? I see several scenarios:
1) Lack. The VM was created in an environment where parchment / paper simply was not available. Secluded in a rural place or during a severe crisis, in exile, ...
As Lisa suggested, the author or a community may have produced all materials including ink and pigments DIY style. This is however hard to reconcile with the necessary reference imagery, unless the artist drew everything from memory. Which might explain some (but far from all) oddities. On the other hand, some imagery looks to have been copied relatively faithfully.
Bernd > 19-04-2026, 05:37 PM
(19-04-2026, 02:29 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I suppose that even books in an imperial library were often lent out, or made available to visitors. Otherwise, what would be the point of creating such libraries?They were a display of wealth, knowledge and power as well as a collection of valuables (and gifts). Luxury manuscripts (most of the ones that survived the times) were collectibles, not literature to be used frequently. Certainly it was possible to access these works, but not for commoners who couldn't even afford decent parchment.
(19-04-2026, 02:29 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Is BNCF Palatino 766 really Taccola's original notebook? I imagine that his real notebook would have had all sorts of scribbles, stupid ideas, bad drawings, etc; so he would not have dared to just send it to the Emperor. I rather think that he hastily made a clean copy for that purpose.Actually Palatino 766 itself is exactly that, full of doodles and and not befitting for an Emperor. Yet there is no evidence the Emperor ever received a better copy, and most likely he didn't get Palatino 766. But there is strong evidence Taccola did not possess the notebook after he completed it. Exactly because he liked to doodle in his notebooks and amend them. He would have continued to draw in it if he had it and re-use the imagery in his later works. None of that happened. That's what makes De ingeneis III-IV unique. His other works were copied and recompiled all over. Palatino 766 was not - except vaguely in the VM. According to literature, it's believed Taccola was not in possession of Palatino 766 shortly after he finished it, but that it remained in Siena. What happened then for the following centuries until it ended up in BNCF is as much of a question as the whereabouts of the VM. That doesn't mean Palatino 766 was never copied, but these copies certainly were never widely available - or even known to exist. Still I'm not 100% certain Palatino 766 has to be a definitive source for the VM. Taccola heavily copied from Konrad Kyeser, and a Kyeser copy might have also been a source for the VM. But Taccola's organic half-humanist style fits the VM better that known Kyeser copies with their purely medieval strict and straightforward art style.
(19-04-2026, 02:29 PM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Vellum and parchment, with iron-gall ink (IGI), were generally used when one wanted the result to be resistant to wear and tear, humidity, and accidental exposure to spill or rain.Yes, I agree. Either an environment where you could neither buy paper, vellum nor IGA - I'm not saying it has to be outside of Europe, but certainly not a wealthy place. Some alpine valley maybe or a crisis-ridden area, of which was no lack in the early 15th century. Or - a deliberate decision to write on poor vellum (hoax?). But then why not use IGA?
So the Author presumably decided to have his paper draft put to vellum because he wanted to preserve its contents for posterity. Or maybe because he thought that a vellum copy could be sold for a better price than a paper one.
A more intriguing question is why the VMS is not written with IGI. This fact is clearly shown by the (non)appearance of the ink in the infrared images, and by how easily text and drawings got rubbed off or washed away (as on page You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view. and under that "ketchup" stain on f103r).
Maybe the Scribe had no experience with vellum, and neither he nor the Author knew that he had to use IGI? Or the Scribe used a washable ink on purpose, because he anticipated there would be many mistakes that would have to be corrected? Or maybe the Author was so poor that he could not even afford the ingredients (oak galls and green vitriol) needed to make IGI?
Or maybe those ingredients were not available where the vellum copy was made? They should have been easily available in any European town where someone used vellum/parchment -- meaning any town that had a notary, lawyer, monastery, etc. But outside Europe, where vellum/parchment were not used, it may have been impossible to obtain them.
(19-04-2026, 02:51 PM)Koen G Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I don't think any supposed access to sources is a problem. Access doesn't mean ownership. And even if people, families or institutions owned a number of books, that doesn't mean that they still have the means, ability or desire to buy high-grade materials. It's possible for an individual or institution to have limited financial means, but also have a library: from past acquisitions, inheritance, donations...I find this very hard to believe. The cost of more decent parchment would not have been prohibitive, not to speak of IGA. Or just use paper! I stand by my point that whoever made the VM had access to a vast and top-level source of imagery. Something of enormous value that does not fit the poor materials of the VM at all. Extremely wealthy collector, university or Royal Court. Which would also fit with Taccola's elusive De Ingeneis III-IV. For a long time my favorite hypothesis was that the author did not get the imagery from books at all - but from the stock image collection of a workshop. Images from a myriad of sources without context which he adapted and / or misinterpreted. But this does not fit with the low-grade parchment and ink quality - and Taccola's copy-less De Ingeneis III-IV.
LisaFaginDavis > 19-04-2026, 08:57 PM
Jorge_Stolfi > 19-04-2026, 10:36 PM
(19-04-2026, 05:37 PM)Bernd Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.They were a display of wealth, knowledge and power as well as a collection of valuables (and gifts). Luxury manuscripts (most of the ones that survived the times) were collectibles, not literature to be used frequently. Certainly it was possible to access these works, but not for commoners who couldn't even afford decent parchment.![]()
Quote:Also such works were not copied from libraries. They were compiled in workshops that had text on scrolls and stock imagery, usually on wooden boards (Pinakes). Hence the often substantial differences in text and imagery between copies.
Quote:The cost of more decent parchment would not have been prohibitive, not to speak of IGA.
Quote:Or just use paper!
Quote:I stand by my point that whoever made the VM had access to a vast and top-level source of imagery.
Quote:Who made parchment of VM quality and in which environment was such parchment most likely to be found?
Bernd > 19-04-2026, 11:24 PM
Quote:The parchment was identified in 2014 by a team at the University of York to be made of calf skin, so it is vellum in the strict sense of the word.You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.
Quote:Aside from local availability of livestock and preferences in meat consumption, parchment production in medieval Europe was limited by logistical challenges. Parchment production was presumably located close to the point of slaughter, because skins deteriorate within days, resulting in poor quality and spotty membranes. Hides can be preserved by salting, but this process would be prohibitively expensive in Northern Europe
Quote:In addition, the prestige and value of particular types of skin played an important role. Fourteenth-century accounts from Beaulieu Abbey show that calfskin was more highly valued than sheepskin. The importance of the hide as a source of revenue is repeatedly evidenced by the abundance of skinning marks on animal remains, the range of decrees and bylaws restricting the flaying of animals that had died of diseases, and the lengths the authorities went to prevent these skins being used
Quote:Although the species of animal used would reflect local livestock availability, the age of the animals was limited by the craft production. La Lande’s book Art de faire le parchemin, written in 1762, indicates that calfskins suitable for making parchment should not be taken from an animal older than 6 wk of age. The skins of young calves, although suitable for parchment production, are already several times thicker than the skin of adult goats or sheep. Although adult goats and sheep can be used for the production of certain types of parchment, adult cow skins are too thick for parchment production and are instead used to produce heavy, durable leather. However, Clavel notes that calf bones are rarely found in 13th and 14th century sample collections [in France] and comprise only 2–5% of all cattle bones from excavated sites, appearing with greater frequency in later periods. Veal calves were typically slaughtered at around 6 mo of age, but the bones of very young cattle have rarely been found in French medieval archaeological sites.
Quote:Although the use of genuine uterine vellum cannot be discounted, our results suggest that its availability was not a defining factor in medieval parchment production. Instead, our findings would seem to emphasize dependence on a highly specialized craft technique rather than the supply of a particular raw material. A more likely explanation for the production of fine parchment is the use of relatively young animals and the deployment of specific finishing techniques that enabled the corium to be ground to the desired thickness. The density of collagen fibrils in calf and goat parchment, compared with a more open weave and higher fat content in sheep parchment, favors the former two species; nevertheless, it is evident that parchment makers had the skills to make the finest parchments from all three.