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• Stars in f68r1/f68r2

• Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Rafal > 03-04-2026, 10:13 PM

  In folios f68r1 and f68r2 we have very characteristic pictures of the sky with Sun, Moon and stars:
     
  
  The stars are placed into a circle. I believe that such thing - some art in manuscript put into a circle is often called "medallion".
  
  The stars have labels. It would seem very natural that they are names of the stars but unfortunately nobody was able to read any of them, just like the rest of Voynich Manuscript.
  
  Of course, it would be great to find the inspiration for this picture in another source, with stars signed in normal alphabet. Then we could match the Voynichese labels and the other labels.
  
  As far as I know such inspiration is unknown. I have seen several similar pictures but in all of them the stars were without labels.
  Have a look:
     
     
     
  
  All these examples are actually not astronomical but religious and are sacral art about the creation of the world. The stars in them are generic and don't represent real, distinct stars having names.
  
  Woukd you say that these kinds of pictures are inspiration for f68r1 and f68r2 or not?
  
  If they are inspiration then it would mean the Voynich artist added labels to generic, nameless stars in his source. Would you agree?
  
  In such case what would such labels mean? Some star names assigned randomly?
  Or could he have another inspiration, different from these religious pictures?
  Are there any "maps of the sky" in medieval manuscripts with sky presented in similar "medalion" way but with proper stars, signed and properly positioned?

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  JustAnotherTheory > Yesterday, 08:43 AM

  Great finds. Can you give references to the manuscripts please?

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Antonio García Jiménez > Yesterday, 10:04 AM

  The labels on those two pages of the Voynich Manuscript, in my opinion, are simply stellar positions without any intention of being exact. In fact, on the second page, there are stars without labels because they aren't really that important. It makes no difference whether they're included or not.
  
    What is interesting is the arrangement of the stars in a circle on those Voynich pages and in the other images. They are in a circle because it is a flat surface, but what the authors of all those images had in mind was a solid sphere on which all those stars are located. It is a solid sphere beyond which lies the kingdom of God.

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Bernd > Yesterday, 11:12 AM

  I think they're a good match, especially the first one from San Marco in Venice. It's from the South cupola, west narthex and dated 1215-35.
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  But It's unlikely the VM artist copied this, not a lot of detail to see from the ground. I guess the source must be Byzantine? It could be interesting to find more examples in manuscripts. Regarding the labels - 2 possibilities. Either the source had the stars labeled (unlikely), or the VM artist did. Regarding context - I am increasingly under the impression that the VM artist adapted images he came across and found interesting to his own needs. This does not mean they need to have a similar context, much like toady's stock images that might be used in a multitude of situations. So even finding the exact source of a VM image might not tell us a lot about what it is actually supposed to be about.

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Rafal > Yesterday, 12:56 PM

  Quote:But It's unlikely the VM artist copied this, not a lot of detail to see from the ground. I guess the source must be Byzantine?

  
  That would be true. AI claims that mosaics in San Marco were inspired by an old Byzantine manuscript called Cotton Genesis:
  
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  The Cotton Genesis appears to have been used in the 1220s as the basis for the design of 110 mosaic panels in the atrium of St Mark's Basilica in Venice,
  presumably after it was brought to Venice following the sack of Constantinople by the Fourth Crusade in 1204.
  
  Unfortunately Cotton Genesis was mostly destroyed in a fire in 1731 and today we don't have neither original nor a direct copy of this particular star picture from it.
  
  But it seems to be the original source for San Marco and other creation illustrations from my examples.
  
  Now we can wonder if it was the inspiration for Voynich Manuscript. If it was, it probably happened not directly, with Voynich author holding Cotton Genesis in his hands. I would say he also wasn't watching mosaics in San Marco. Rather he had some manuscript inspired by Cotton Genesis like my examples and used it as his inspiration.

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Rafal > Yesterday, 01:10 PM

  Quote:Great finds. Can you give references to the manuscripts please?

  
  Sure, here you are:
  
  Pamplona Bibel, page 2v:
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  Tractatus de Creatione:
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  (link may not work at the moment but it worked yesterday)

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Rafal > Yesterday, 02:24 PM

  And I will add one more observation.
  
  Star pictures like San Marco are purely decorative.
  Voynich star pictures try to look scientific.
  
  But a medieval, scientific sky map would for 99% include star constellations.
  
  Nobody was drawing "loose" stars. The proper way would be drawing them in groups they belonged to. But Voynich Manuscript doesn't have constellations.
  
  Something fishy is going on here 

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Juan_Sali > Yesterday, 02:26 PM

  (03-04-2026, 10:13 PM)Rafal Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.If they are inspiration then it would mean the Voynich artist added labels to generic, nameless stars in his source. Would you agree?
  
  In such case what would such labels mean? Some star names assigned randomly?

  Most of the labels are a single word. Under the hypothesis  of a cipher most of words cant be split in smaller n-grams 
  because they would be too common. Then most of lthe abels should be a single letter, and form a shot text, 29 labels for f68r1
  and 24 labels for f68r2, minimum 29 and 24 letters.
  The Pamplona Bibel, page 2v represents the 4th day of the creation with a small latin text on its top. Maybe the labels in the VMS 
  are also a small text related to the same topic.

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Aga Tentakulus > Yesterday, 04:39 PM

  You may be right that there are no zodiac signs, but the Pleiades do exist.
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  Question: Why did he draw it twice?
  Now we need a little imagination. It can also be seen on the Nebra Sky Disk.
  I assume he drew the star chart based on the equinoxes. That’s why it’s there twice. From his perspective, as he saw the sky from where he was standing.
  One image has many more stars than the first. I think the view was against a band of the Milky Way, hence more stars.
  
  As I said, just a little more imagination.
  
  
     
  
  Symbol of the sun with equal halos. Equinox. The beginning of spring, hence the Pleiades and Taurus.
  That’s the beginning of spring, and you can bet on it.

• RE: Stars in f68r1/f68r2

  Common_Man > Today, 01:00 AM

  I have a feeling that labelese is the true voynichese and the words written on the pages are some encryption changing the true words/sentenses and giving them weird properties. But then there ks no way to read both. The star labels seemed like a good starting point, but they also lead to nowhere ?
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