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A family of grammars for Voynichese

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• A family of grammars for Voynichese

• RE: A family of grammars for Voynichese

  Wladimir D > Yesterday, 12:38 PM

  This is example 23

• RE: A family of grammars for Voynichese

  nablator > Yesterday, 03:12 PM

  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view..

• RE: A family of grammars for Voynichese

  Mauro > Yesterday, 11:11 PM

  (Yesterday, 06:53 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I won't go that far.  For now, I only became convinced that many final ir (note, not just any final r) are scribal errors for iin (note that here r = in, not r = n).  I believe that those errors are so common that replacing all final ir by iin will fix more errors than create new ones.
  
  All the best, --stolfi

  
  If this is true, I would expect the ratio of occurrences of a word written with final -iin vs. the occurrences of the same word but written with -ir to be more or less constant (this assumes a simple model in which the scribe randomly miswrites an -iin as -ir with some probability). Did you check that?

• RE: A family of grammars for Voynichese

  Jorge_Stolfi > Today, 07:24 AM

  (Yesterday, 12:31 PM)Aga Tentakulus Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.From my collection

  
  Thanks!  But are there any other occurrences of that weirdo?
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: A family of grammars for Voynichese

  Jorge_Stolfi > Today, 07:40 AM

  (Yesterday, 11:11 PM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (Yesterday, 06:53 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I only became convinced that many final ir (note, not just any final r) are scribal errors for iin

  If this is true, I would expect the ratio of occurrences of a word written with final -iin vs. the occurrences of the same word but written with -ir to be more or less constant (this assumes a simple model in which the scribe randomly miswrites an -iin as -ir with some probability). Did you check that?

  
  Here are the frequencies of the "coda" elements of my model, as of last week:
  
      113.500000  0.00091 {n}     868.250000  0.00697 {m} 
     1665.500000  0.01336 {in}     40.000000  0.00032 {im} 
     3779.000000  0.03032 {iin}    15.000000  0.00012 {iim}
      159.000000  0.00128 {iiin}    1.0       0.00001 {iiim}
       
      487.750000  0.00391 {ir}
      130.500000  0.00105 {iir}
        1.0       0.00001 {iiir}
  
  In the n series the most frequent is {iin}, whereas in the r series the most frequent is {ir}. The ratio {ir}:{iir} = ~3.7 matches neither {iin}:{iiin} = 23.6 nor {in}:{iin} = 0.44, but at least is greater than 1, like the former.
  
  All the best, --stolfi

• RE: A family of grammars for Voynichese

  Mauro > 7 hours ago

  (Today, 07:40 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (Yesterday, 11:11 PM)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

  (Yesterday, 06:53 AM)Jorge_Stolfi Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I only became convinced that many final ir (note, not just any final r) are scribal errors for iin

  If this is true, I would expect the ratio of occurrences of a word written with final -iin vs. the occurrences of the same word but written with -ir to be more or less constant (this assumes a simple model in which the scribe randomly miswrites an -iin as -ir with some probability). Did you check that?

  
  Here are the frequencies of the "coda" elements of my model, as of last week:
  
      113.500000  0.00091 {n}     868.250000  0.00697 {m} 
     1665.500000  0.01336 {in}     40.000000  0.00032 {im} 
     3779.000000  0.03032 {iin}    15.000000  0.00012 {iim}
      159.000000  0.00128 {iiin}    1.0       0.00001 {iiim}
       
      487.750000  0.00391 {ir}
      130.500000  0.00105 {iir}
        1.0       0.00001 {iiir}
  
  In the n series the most frequent is {iin}, whereas in the r series the most frequent is {ir}. The ratio {ir}:{iir} = ~3.7 matches neither {iin}:{iiin} = 23.6 nor {in}:{iin} = 0.44, but at least is greater than 1, like the former.
  
  All the best, --stolfi

  
  Not exactly the kind of test I had in mind. I made a quick check (very quick, so excuse me if I made mistakes, and with the limit that it refers to the whole text of the VMS), with the occurrences of the 8 most frequent words which end in 'aiin' vs. the corresponding 'air' word.
  
  daiin vs. dair = 834/109 = 7.65
  aiin vs. air = 529/78 = 6.78
  qokaiin vs. qokair = 259/21 = 12.33
  okaiin vs. okair = 152/25 = 6.08
  saiin vs. sair = 129/26 = 4.96
  qotaiin vs. qotair = 83/5 = 16.6
  kaiin vs. kair = 63/16 = 3.93
  
  They look to me a bit too much spreaded out to support the hypothesis that 'iin' is randomly replaced by 'ir' with some probability (but I ran no statistical tests)

• RE: A family of grammars for Voynichese

  Jorge_Stolfi > 5 hours ago

  (7 hours ago)Mauro Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I made a quick check (very quick, so excuse me if I made mistakes, and with the limit that it refers to the whole text of the VMS), with the occurrences of the 8 most frequent words which end in 'aiin' vs. the corresponding 'air' word.
  
  daiin vs. dair = 834/109 = 7.65
  aiin vs. air = 529/78 = 6.78
  qokaiin vs. qokair = 259/21 = 12.33
  okaiin vs. okair = 152/25 = 6.08
  saiin vs. sair = 129/26 = 4.96
  qotaiin vs. qotair = 83/5 = 16.6
  kaiin vs. kair = 63/16 = 3.93
  
  They look to me a bit too much spread out to support the hypothesis that 'iin' is randomly replaced by 'ir' with some probability (but I ran no statistical tests)

  
  Thanks for running the test!
  
  I notice that the two longer qo words have high values of the ratio R = "iin/ir", namely 12.3 and 16.6; whereas for the other shorter non-qo words the values of R range between 3.9 and 7.7.
  
  The "ir = iin" theory could still be saved if those qo words happen to occur mostly at the start of lines or paragraphs, or after (invisible) sentence breaks.  Then it may be that the Author's handwriting was neater right after those break points, but got sloppier after that.
  
  Or perhaps both the "iin" and the "ir" versions of the "short" words above were valid, with the original ratio R0 = "iin/ir" being around 7; whereas only the "iin" versions of the qo words were valid.  Then, if only ~8% of the words ending in "iin" got changed into "ir", indiscriminately, the resulting frequencies would be roughly as listed.
  
  All the best, --stolfi
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