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Opinions on: line as a functional unit

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• Opinions on: line as a functional unit

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  rikforto > 06-11-2025, 11:34 AM

  (06-11-2025, 01:05 AM)Kaybo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.What if the manuscript are just tables of numbers. In a lot of astronomy books of that time we find tables that can predict things in the future. That are mostly numbers, star names, zodiac signs. In that case you would get similar words in every column. That would also explain why you would get word repeats.

  
  You certainly can't rule it out---like all things Voynich, it's good to track your assumptions. But with that in mind, the herbal section is very weird if it is astronomical tables. It looks like a herbal section, not something that would accompany tables of numbers. Now, I am very hard on "looks like" theories and won't slam the door on it being something other than it seems, but I tend to assume the drawings are related to the text in ways that would be obvious if we could understand the text. I will also say the text doesn't have obvious columns, though again, I am open to a demonstration that it has subtle ones if you have the evidence for it.
  
  For what it's worth, some people have tried to get a Roman numeral system to work, as that would explain the rigid ordering of the letters, but no one yet has ever come up with a satisfactory system. The way to prove that idea right, of course, would t be to come up with such a system, and I certainly won't discourage you from going down that path no matter what my intuition is

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  Bluetoes101 > 06-11-2025, 12:30 PM

  I think there are a few parts to it. 
  
  Are there ways in which it could be "normal"?
  Yes, many noted here. 
  
  Are there ways in which it could be "normal" + context of images?
  Yes, but it might be a bit more abstract, possible "filler" in places to keep structure - extended lines. 
  
  Can we see examples in other writings of people "being fancy" or adding abbreviations at the ends of lines to make glyphs that look like "m" etc?
  Yes, It seems to be fairly common. 
  
  There's more, but overall it seems plausible beyond evidence of a coding system. 
  
  However, I think once you look at letter pairings and their frequency within lines, that's what makes me lean more into "evidence of a coding system" (Edit - Maybe, "evidence of purposeful structure to lines" is more accurate here) . 
  If that means "cipher" or something more mundane I don't know. 
  
  I don't think this can be by accident or unplanned.
  
     

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  Bluetoes101 > 06-11-2025, 12:49 PM

  Somewhere this can be "normal" is hymns. Though I use "normal" (in the above post), as I think most explanations require some sort of theory of what's going on.
  
  .. then it gets a bit abstract once you try pair in images.
  
     

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  bi3mw > 06-11-2025, 01:15 PM

  With lines as functional units, it occurred to me that it could be some kind of verse form (e.g., hexameter?). Ovid's Metamorphoses, for example, was very widespread and popular in the (late) Middle Ages. Perhaps the author of the VMS wanted to replicate the structure of these verses.

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  Kaybo > 06-11-2025, 02:22 PM

  (06-11-2025, 01:15 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.With lines as functional units, it occurred to me that it could be some kind of verse form (e.g., hexameter?). Ovid's Metamorphoses, for example, was very widespread and popular in the (late) Middle Ages. Perhaps the author of the VMS wanted to replicate the structure of these verses.

  
  Interestingly there are some letters at the side of an old Ovid's Metamorphoses text.
  
  

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  bi3mw > 06-11-2025, 02:45 PM

  (06-11-2025, 02:22 PM)Kaybo Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.Interestingly there are some letters at the side of an old Ovid's Metamorphoses text.

  
  These are the first letters of the first word in each line. It would be interesting to know why they are written separately. Sometimes reading the letters vertically makes sense, but that is obviously not the case here.

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  Kaybo > 06-11-2025, 02:49 PM

  (06-11-2025, 01:15 PM)bi3mw Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.With lines as functional units, it occurred to me that it could be some kind of verse form (e.g., hexameter?). Ovid's Metamorphoses, for example, was very widespread and popular in the (late) Middle Ages. Perhaps the author of the VMS wanted to replicate the structure of these verses.

  
  Interestingly there are some letters at the side of an old Ovid's Metamorphoses text.
  
  
  
  
  
  And this has probably also already shown here in the forum, which has bathing naked people, the sun, the moon and the wind. 
  
  

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  JoJo_Jost > 07-11-2025, 10:50 PM

  I have also found such a text, so it does not seem to be anything unusual. Its an english text of the 13th century
  
  
  I am still trying to figure out the reason for these separate initial letters. 
  
  But the assumption that the Voynich pages, Similar to these pages, represent a code has suffered a serious blow.
  
  
  Source:
  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  Kaybo > 08-11-2025, 12:18 AM

  (06-11-2025, 12:30 PM)Bluetoes101 Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I think there are a few parts to it. 
  
  Are there ways in which it could be "normal"?
  Yes, many noted here. 
  
  Are there ways in which it could be "normal" + context of images?
  Yes, but it might be a bit more abstract, possible "filler" in places to keep structure - extended lines. 
  
  Can we see examples in other writings of people "being fancy" or adding abbreviations at the ends of lines to make glyphs that look like "m" etc?
  Yes, It seems to be fairly common. 
  
  There's more, but overall it seems plausible beyond evidence of a coding system. 
  
  However, I think once you look at letter pairings and their frequency within lines, that's what makes me lean more into "evidence of a coding system" (Edit - Maybe, "evidence of purposeful structure to lines" is more accurate here) . 
  If that means "cipher" or something more mundane I don't know. 
  
  I don't think this can be by accident or unplanned.

  
  And still there is no clear pattern that could give a hint. If we look at words (short ones) that are very often in the manuscript, then they are distributed nearly evenly also at the start of a line. So there are not only code words at the start of the line or some words have a dual function.

• RE: Opinions on: line as a functional unit

  Jorge_Stolfi > 08-11-2025, 02:46 AM

  (07-11-2025, 10:50 PM)JoJo_Jost Wrote: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login to view.I have also found such a text, so it does not seem to be anything unusual. Its an english text of the 13th century

  
  It is Mongolian to me... Are those detached letters on the left margin just the first letter of the first word?  As in another MS that was posted recently?
  
  If so, what would be the justification for that layout?  Just a fashion of the times?  Helpful for reading?  A side effect of how the scribe worked?
  
  All the best, --stolfi
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